this post was submitted on 27 Apr 2026
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Ok, this gonna sound polemic and I'm gonna try to not use any adjectives. (Except for once)

The thing is that sometimes I feel like many stories try to appeal to a broad audience, but regardless of what they aim for, a lot of the time the audience ends up being (I’ll allow myself this just once) men rather than women. I’m not sure if this happens with the animated series of Avatar, but I do notice that with Star Trek, even though they try to make everyone feel represented, the reality is that the average viewer is, well, just that—the average person in the country where it’s broadcast.

In the case of Avatar, it’s criticized by some Japanese people because they associate it more with China, to the point that they label it as almost racist when it’s compared to Japanese animation (anime). What I mean is that no matter how much a series tries to appeal to a general audience or to please everyone, that’s never really going to happen; it will always end up having a group with shared characteristics that likes it.

But what do you think? Can there be stories that anyone—regardless of gender, ethnicity, or country—can enjoy? I think the closest thing to that is Harry Potter, and well, you know what the creator is like, but that’s not the point here.

It’s hard to explain, but this is more aimed at writers or any other creative producer: do you write with a specific audience in mind, or do you think that everyone will like what you create?

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[–] HubertManne@piefed.social 1 points 9 hours ago

All I know is content in general from major entities do not appeal much to me. There is a lot of it though and things will show up that are good im sure.

[–] Kirk@startrek.website 3 points 1 day ago (1 children)

who is "most star trek viewers"?

[–] cuchi@startrek.website 0 points 23 hours ago (1 children)

If you want to know, don't be offended but the average Star Trek viewer is... An United States white man, heterosexual, sci-fi enjoyer (most likely; a nerd).

Yes, there is transgender people or others, but let's face it, the majority are from USA and the most average kind of person.

Not as some Star Trek character with mexican, chilean, russian nationality, lesbian women, even the show tell you about diversity, the Star Trek Viewer is not diverse, is mostly from USA. (I'm sure I'm the only one from argentina in this website)

People said "Star Trek Starfleet academy is not for the average white man, is something for true fans" and well, there you have it, cancelled after first season because again, minorities are not really interested in Star Trek. Which is sad.

I'm not against diversity, but the truth is, people want to be identified with the series they are watching. I don't agree with the complains.

So, my question is, how it feels to have a target if that same target it's not the people who are interesting in your work? And why most stories have a kind of viewer? (Like I said before)

[–] Kirk@startrek.website 4 points 14 hours ago* (last edited 14 hours ago) (2 children)
[–] cuchi@startrek.website 1 points 6 hours ago (1 children)

I have to source but really, you still gonna denied it.

[–] Kirk@startrek.website 1 points 4 hours ago

ok just wondering

[–] UltraMagnus@startrek.website 4 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Ghibli might be a more interesting case study - Miyazaki repeatedly said that he did not write his stories with an audience in mind besides himself, but his movies quite clearly have universal appeal. His stories are quite clearly grounded in his own culture, but they touch on universal human experiences.

However, there are definitely stories with a specific audience in mind that do not have universal appeal (e.g., Transformers smut fanfic) though generally authors are aware of this.

I think there are also folks who write stories with an idea in mind of universal appeal, but do not understand themselves enough to actually do so - things they take for granted as "common sense" may not actually be human universals. Or, because they fail to say anything at all in their work, it ends up fading into the background. (I don't believe in sociopolitically "neutral" works, we are all shaped by our beliefs and cultures).

These works aren't necessarily bad, either- I think Andy Weir has said a few times in interviews that his works aren't meant to be "political", but the two that I've read (The Martian, Project Hail Mary) are both a sort of "sci fi optimism" about people from different nations coming together to solve a problem. That may be "common sense" to some people, but it is certainly NOT a universal (even if I do share the outlook that people of Earth should work together to help each other regardless of national boundaries).

[–] cuchi@startrek.website 1 points 22 hours ago

From Studio Ghibli, the ones I know are mostly women—it doesn’t quite reach a fifty-fifty split, at least from my biased point of view.

Maybe that sci-fi optimism is different from other political way of thinking, right?

[–] rogermccoy@startrek.website 17 points 3 days ago

the audience ends up being (I’ll allow myself this just once) men rather than women

I know Trek has a rep here for the fans all being guys—specifically guys who can't get a date—but I don't know if it holds up to much scrutiny. The campaigns to rescue TOS were spearheaded by Bjo Trimble and I believe the participants were a pretty mixed crowd, including a lot of women who appreciated good sci-fi in addition to those who thought that—in the immortal words of Isaac Asimov's daughter—"Mr. Spock is dreamy." I haven't been to a lot of cons, but the ones I've seen felt like pretty mixed crowds as well.

the average viewer is, well, just that—the average person in the country where it’s broadcast

Isn't the average in most countries a roughly equal split of men and women?

[–] SharkWeek@lemmy.blahaj.zone 9 points 2 days ago

My mother and I had very little in common outside of us both liking Star Trek. It was the bridge that allowed us to reconnect after I hadn't spoken to her in 12 years.

My wife also enjoys it, and my Dad, brother and sister aren't fussed about it at all.

So, from my immediate family, all of the fans are women.

[–] RIotingPacifist@lemmy.world 9 points 2 days ago (2 children)

I think the closest thing to that is Harry Potter

Regardless of JK's bigotry, Harry Potter just isn't that good, it's kids books that never evolve beyond that, that makes it easy reading and good for fanslop, but it's really a bunch of stories where the good guys are good because they are good and the bad guys are bad because they are bad, there is no complexity or real world morality, it's just slop of kids that people who never read books for adults like. Which makes it good to make movieslop from.

do you write with a specific audience in mind

Have we learnt nothing from the SnyderCut? imagining a fan to make your movie for makes for bad movies.

[–] cuchi@startrek.website 1 points 6 hours ago* (last edited 6 hours ago) (1 children)

Still, Harry Potter is enjoyed by boys and girls, my point was not about quality, is how a story manage to get that "all audience taste" goal.

Harry Potter is demographically diverse, instead of Star Trek, even if I like Star Trek way more than Harry Potter.

[–] RIotingPacifist@lemmy.world 2 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

Harry Potter is demographically diverse,

Is it? It's hard to find any real data.

Based on the fact that one of the biggest black movie stars of the 90s, chose to be in Star Trek because of the influence seeing the diversity in TOS had on her I don't think the Trek is white boy sci-fi narrative really holds up to any scrutiny.

[–] cuchi@startrek.website 1 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

Source of Harry Potter demographics: https://pro.morningconsult.com/instant-intel/harry-potter-fandom-demographics Getting almost 50-50 woman and male in a fandom is VERY hard to get.

Of course there is black people who love what Star Trek do in their universe, but they aren't a big number of the fandom, Whoopi Goldberg is a great actress, yes, but still the fandom is predominant by white men because the story itself is more atracted to that audience.

[–] RIotingPacifist@lemmy.world 2 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

Ok do you have a source on Trek demographics?

Getting almost 50-50 woman and male in a fandom is VERY hard to get.

What are you basing this on?

[–] jalanhenning@dice.camp 2 points 1 hour ago

@RIotingPacifist @cuchi “A shockingly high percentage of Americans consider themselves to be Star Trek fans: 37% overall. Men are half again as likely as women to be fans: 45% vs. 30% of women.” https://researchscape.com/consumer-research-2/paramount-subscribers-and-star-trek-fans

[–] Grail@multiverse.soulism.net 8 points 2 days ago

Hey, Harry Potter has plenty of moral complexity and greyness! It features a lot of important political issues like "how to be a good slaveowner" and "making sure the holocaust happens"

Hahahaha

[–] ValueSubtracted@startrek.website 9 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Can there be stories that anyone—regardless of gender, ethnicity, or country—can enjoy?

Sure - there are plenty of global mega-hits, from the MCU to Star Wars to The Fast and the Furious.

But I don't think you can (or should, really) separate a work from the cultural context that led to its creation.

[–] cuchi@startrek.website 0 points 3 days ago (2 children)

"MCU" and "Star Wars" has not complaing of "being woke" by the majority of their own fandom? And in compare of Star Trek they are actually more people anti-woke people on the fandom.

As far as I know, people complaing about Rey for being a "mary stu" even with characters as Starkiller without the same complaing the writing just because he is a guy.

I never see women enoying The Fast and Furious.

[–] ValueSubtracted@startrek.website 14 points 2 days ago (1 children)

If there's one thing people need to realize about the "anti-woke" crowd, it's that outside of poisoning online spaces, they don't matter.

They are very loud, but at the end of the day, there's not actually that many of them. The box office numbers speak for themselves.

And it's an anecdote, but the single biggest F&F fan I know is a woman.

[–] cuchi@startrek.website 2 points 2 days ago (3 children)

I think it does matter in fandoms which are like the 60%, literally every single person I meet which like MCU is like "Dude, you remember that forced scene when all girls are in the same scene only for 'girl power'?"

[–] ValueSubtracted@startrek.website 10 points 2 days ago (1 children)

And the movie still made nearly $2.8 billion.

Don't get me wrong, I think it's important to foster healthy online spaces that are free of that sort of nonsense - I wouldn't be here if I didn't - but that crowd is a drop in the bucket when it comes to the actual audience.

They're just loud, obnoxious, and spurred on by grifters.

[–] cuchi@startrek.website -1 points 22 hours ago

Yeah, I mean, is a silly complaing, but, surprisely, they complaing about that scene like "the big mistake of the movie" for some reason.

[–] kieron115@startrek.website 9 points 2 days ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

ahh yes, as opposed to the forced scenes where all the boys group up for boy power

[–] Kirk@startrek.website 2 points 1 day ago

sHoVeD DoWn oUr tHrOaTs

[–] RIotingPacifist@lemmy.world 8 points 2 days ago

Why?

Was there a significant decrease in viewership due to that? or was it because all the MCU movies became fanslop that eventually the fans realized were shit movies?

[–] SharkWeek@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 2 days ago

I'm happy to be the exception to the rule, then. I'm a woman who enjoyed the F&F movies up to maybe the 6th one.

Tokyo Drift can fuck right off, though.

[–] haverholm@kbin.earth 5 points 2 days ago

There are a lot of unknowns in this question, and assumptions filling in for facts about audiences (intended as well as actual viewership), writers/producers — and the gender ratio of each group. Throwing international, culturally diverse audiences into the mix doesn't do much to focus the subject.

There's a lot to unpick, especially when replies to comments show you're also implicitly concerned with the "anti-woke" crowd and their perceived gender majority. As well as their outsized public voice (ie, loudness) compared to their actual numbers, as @ValueSubtracted@startrek.website says.

Personally, and therefore also based in assumption, I don't see Trek as written for an "average viewer" vs an actual, predominantly male audience. I've only observed Trek viewers to be a fair mix of all gender identities, and the show's appeal to such a wide spectrum must come from the show itself, as written and produced.

But the individual shows must also be considered in isolation. Where shows like Discovery and SFA have celebrated woke (ie, humanist, progressive) values, I very much perceive the SNW show runners as a gang of old, male fans who somehow have been allowed to create the world's most expensive, regressive fanfic. But that's me.