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Ice has always been like this to Latinos. Why do you think people ran when they said that the migra was approaching? It became a joke but people were being abused, locked up, and violently separated from family. Only now is happening in front of cameras and to white people
Here's an ethical question:
If the distinction is minor, but saying that we should look at our own evil history instead of somewhere else's; however, doing so would like reduce some people's opposition support, should you do it?
I think calling them the gestapo, a tool of what many Americans would identify as the most evil regime, is more likely to get support from people than saying literally anything negative about America. Americans are dumb.
But the problem is that this reinforces their denial, which leads to them continuing to support other organizations that do the exact same things.
This isn't a *minor distinction", this is the very thinking that let ICE grow and expand for two decades.
The gestapo were a cheap knock off of the American things.
The Nazis were inspired by the American lunacy of old times, if you remember well.
Indeed, does that matter? The average American doesn't know shit about history, especially not the darker parts of American history.
They definitely know about the nazis.
The average American can barely just shoot a gun and that's it.
ICE is all those things, including Gestapo. Nazi Germany was heavily influenced by America after all, it's no surprise it's come full circle
I've heard ICE is closer to the SA than ths Gestapo, since the Gestapo was mostly intelligence while SA was brute force
Correct, however most people don't know anything at all about SA. They know SS and Gestapo.
To anybody reading this, if you want to learn more - both about SA itself and how things like SA/Nazism came to be - I cannot recommend Babylon Berlin enough. The first season is about the post-Great War Germany, whereas the second season is pretty much specifically about the rise of Hitler.
Yes, that post is a great reminder that we can make things too simple, but Trump's administration frequently parrots Nazi propaganda specifically, and we have been told that Trump keeps a book of Hitler's speeches next to his bed.
If anything, I think Trump's administration is so ignorant to history that the Gestapo comparison is more valid, because they likely don't know about this other history, so they're just copying the Nazis directly.
Yeah basically the entire Nazi modus operandi was lifted from American entrepreneurs and general culture.
Don't give Americans the emotional distance of cosplaying foreigners doing it.
Make them own the American white supremacist slaver rhetoric and behavior that they have been espousing the whole time for once and for all.
ICE is the descendant of the indigenous child abductors for boarding schools, ICE is the descendant of the Jim Crow South law enforcement.
Non North American here. What the fuck are those things??? I've never read about those before. I've read about the CIA crimes against humanity already, and USA's banana republic. I guess somewhere back when I stopped reading more into the US's atrocities either life got me or I was too horrified.
Back in 1800s America had native Americans (indigenous) people. While we were stealing their land and scalping them, we also stole their children to "Americanize" those "heathens"... Jim Crow laws were against freed slaves if I remember. Unless you're specifically looking, the US educational system down plays it obviously.
Heyo not sure where you are from, but if you find these things worth looking into, you may also be interested in Canada's residential school atrocities. There was some unearthed history recently(ish) brought up about our governments history, similar to some of those historical events
I don't have any kicks to share but I remember there being some decent actual old school journalism responding.
They are also gestapo. Just look up the meaning:
...notorious for its brutal methods, including arbitrary arrest, surveillance, and enforcement of Nazi policies
Gestapo, Geheime Staatspolizei, secret state police.
Given that they're not exactly dealing with immigration and customs enforcement, but rather roving around the place abducting and murdering people as they please, the glove fits. As does the name, they are the Trump admin's little secret police force in all but name.
I don't give a shit what you call them. They shouldn't be doing what they are doing.
Sherman didn't go far enough.
Truth. And Andrew Johnson ruined justice for the south. We cannot afford another sympathizer.
Amen
I think we call it the gestapo for the benefit of those still in denial. But it seems they only use the comparison to reinforce their denial. Regardless, a good chunk of the country is definitely not able to wrestle with our own legacy of minority brutality no matter how we describe it.
There's a strong case that says Trump has not changed America, he has revealed it.
There's a strong case that's RT propaganda and not indicative of the millions of individuals who are actively protesting. Shut your propaganda hole
Woah now there partner. We can totally separate out the average citizen and the ruling class/government.
When it comes to the government Trump is par for the course. He has taken the mask off the most destructive force in the history of the world.
The only propaganda is believing Trump poses a new and unique threat. The problems have been there from the start. He is the logical progression of money makes right and a reflection of our money worshipping society.
It's absolutely RT ml propaganda but there's an incredibly valid point in there. None of what's happening is at all new to any POC or GSM.
Just now it's affecting more of white people are they realizing how bad it is. Make no mistake though, marginalized groups like PoC and LGBT+ have always been crushed under the boot of a puritanical, racist, fascist government.
It's also affecting queer and poc people more than before.
Oh certainly, but there's people out there with a lack of empathy to understand that or foresight that they're next.
That's true, but I think there's a sizeable portion of people who want to believe that nothing has significantly changed for American minorities in the past year. They didn't bother voting in 2024, and now they want to believe that nothing got worse for their queer and poc neighbours.
When communists talk about "controlled opposition", this is what we mean. A billionaire goes to the DNC and says "Here's a consultant I spent millions on to help your campaign". The consultant has secret orders to sabotage the campaign and says "oil jobs are very important to voters, brag about all the oil jobs you're going to create". Kamala brags about the oil jobs and loses the support of the left. Kamala loses and ICE starts shooting people in the streets. And the left doesn't learn because we don't want to admit we messed up.
yeah, so I do appreciate that there are a lot of people at the moment angrily shouting that someone should do something about this.
That's always been the case too. No matter what direction America was pulling in.
Considering all the viewpoints is not propaganda, you ninny, and that has to include acknowledging the true history of your country
Has less to do with history and more to do with labeling them the worst thing one can be labeled in society. Oh, and they fit the literal definition of nazi trash
Also using terms they can understand, many Americans were extremely anti Nazi during the 40s 50s and the US entire educational system spent decades highlighting Nazis are evil.
Many northern US schools barely touch on the native American atrocities or Jim Crow laws. I strongly suspect the Southern schools never mentioned them. So there's no frame of reference for them.
The historicity is important at other times. But now we need to get people politically engaged with their feet. At this point if we called them Teletubbies and it mobilized people into organized resistance, I'd take it.
The last sentence: Hitler was really "inspired" by the ~~Euthanasia~~ Eugenics movement which was mostly a US-American thing back then.
Euthanasia
i think you misspeeled eugenics, and i'm not entirely sure it was a mostly statesian thing as i wasn't around back then but nietzche and some other european philosophers wrote about it a lot. i know nietzche had his writings coopted by the nazis but i'm not a huge 18th-19th century history wonk. my history wonkishness is 17th-18th century.
The final solution was based off the how the US took care of the Native Americans. Hitler looked up to the fascist US. Many private wealthy US individuals helped bank roll the Nazi movement.
When the Nazi proposed expelling the Jews they approached all the nations and asked them to take the Jews. The US said no and then lobbied all the other countries to refuse thus leading to the final solution.
IBM created the number system that was tattooed onto the Jews arms. They used early computing power to figure out how many Jews would need to be "removed" from the ghettos daily in order to complete the final solution.
More than just the US. It was also very Anglo centric being a school of thought in the UK and Australia.