this post was submitted on 19 Feb 2024
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here are some hyper-polluting individuals:

  • the Rolling Stones’ Boeing 767 (5,046 tonnes of CO2)
  • Lawrence Stroll (1,512 flights)
  • Thirty-nine jets linked to 30 Russian oligarchs – (30,701 tonnes of CO2)

relevant quote:

But I will say this, a movement can't get along without a devil, and across the whole political spectrum there is a misogynistic tendency to choose a female devil, whether it's Anita Bryant, Hillary Clinton, Marie Antoinette, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, or J.K. Rowling [or Taylor Swift]. And there's always gonna be people who seize on any opportunity to be misogynistic. So I would advise trans people and our allies [or environmentalists] to keep in mind, that J.K. Rowling [Taylor Swift] is not the final boss of transphobia [anti-environmentalism]. She's not our devil. The devil is the Republican Party, the Conservative Party.

Natalie Wynn (emphasis and bracket text mine)

edit: if you can’t respond to this without using the c*nt expletive it is not helping your case lmao. mods are we okay with this? in any case, please don’t feed the trolls.

edit 2/FAQ: “but why did she threaten legal action against that college kid though?” still shitty, but refer to this comment for a good explanation of the context behind that decision.

She only threatened legal action since those memes started before when her flight movements got the attention of the right in an attempt to make her less credible of a voice speaking out against trump. And knowing how batshit insane trump cultists can be and how she’s basically the single most hated person of his base I’m not surprised that she feared for her security. Those records were public for years but the legal action only happened after someone created that meme and even fox news suddenly cared about plane emissions…

and another good comment

[…] For Swift, this is legitimate fear. I don't know if you've ever experienced actual fear for your life, but it's crippling, and it effects your psyche. To experience that on a daily basis because of an app? You bet your goddamn ass I'm going to talk to my lawyers about what my options are.

sources/timeline for the above:

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[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I'm really of two minds on the private jet thing, because she undeniably was doing it way too much and for way too short distances, but for longer distances, I can see someone of her level of fame needing to fly privately for security reasons. I doubt Taylor Swift walking through an airport and getting on a Delta flight would be especially safe for her.

I do not like the idea of celebrities traveling in private jets overall, but when you're at Beatles-level fame? The Beatles chartered private flights too. Maybe she should charter, but I can see why flying commercial is a bad plan.

Let the mass downvoting commence.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Maybe we all need to stop subsidizing the airline industry so that these rich assholes who want to fly around all the time for their convenience can pay the entire price themselves. Airlines and airports are publicly funded and utterly unsustainable without massive infusions of government cash and protection at every step along the way.

The fact that we pretend these airline companies and airports are in any way actual businesses Is just a way for the wealthy who get to fly all the time (private jets or not) to offload the cost of their convenient transportation onto the American people.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (48 children)

I'm fine with government-run airlines, but I don't think that would change the security issue I'm talking about.

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[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

I mean it's hilarious that we pilloried Elon Musk for trying to sue someone for tracking his private jet with publicly available records and posting this online, but the same people are defending Taylor Swift for doing the same.

I don't think it's a gender bias so much as it's a bias towards people we don't like.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

It's like saying people did it with Elon Musk because he is African.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

I assume the jet thing is just an excuse because Taylor Swift is the target du jour of the MAGA movement. They don't care about the jet use of anyone else but are actively making up shit about Swift.

This isn't about principles. It's just about othering.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Spujb is good people. I appreciate all the content you post.

So in all honesty, I have been adamantly anti Taylor Swift since the moment I learned there was a new pop star, but this is only because I hate all pop stars and anything corporate. I appreciate the reminder to check yourself on misogyny though. That really does slip into our subconscious so easily.

You know what hate brigade I am praying for? Dave fucking Grohl. I cannot think of a more neutral ass corporate shill.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

holy shit homie this means a lot thank you 🫶

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I'm going to point out something else that, unfortunately, will feel like an attack to some, though I hope my viewpoint is sound:

Taylor Swift is a product of an industry supported by us. Maybe not you, the reader, specifically, though by a couple billion around the world, across often only dozens of artists. That is entertainment. That is the industry. A byproduct and need of this career is travel and you certainly aren't taking a sailboat across the Atlantic to meet deadlines. Now, I am not blaming us. As always it is the industry and those expectations that should be blamed. We are a tiny part of a larger, global issue, though discriminated against and blamed due to our lack of individual authority. Gaslighting is a hell of a drug.

So while I can question Swift's initial amount of private flights, I will also point out that her hopping in a plane is likely akin to us driving a car, in the essence of usage of resources. We all use in excess to some degree and she did dial it back. That alone is important. Finally, I want to call out the bandwagoners and the envious.

I haven't knowingly listened to a single Taylor Swift song. Not sure I could name one tbh. Though for all the energy those of you who are envious put into criticism of what I can tell is one of the lesser evils amongst the many billionaires ruining this planet, you could be doing more and better. I'll admit, many of the memes were rather funny and dunking on someone with the wealth to afford a team of private therapists can be enjoyable, it has bothered me that we leaned so hard on seemingly (so far) the one wealth enjoyer with a bit of empathy.

Anyway, on the toilet at work. So if you need a reason for this there you go. lol I recognize that I probably don't have all the info. Plenty of people will likely come out with some nitpicked story or article or claim. On the scope of actual problems though? Taylor isn't one of them, I feel. At least not yet. Hopefully not ever.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Let’s not forget that at least 50 of Lawrence’s flights are F1 races scattered around the globe in a horrible order for environmental concerns and are increasingly hosted in oil barren countries because F1 loves blood/oil money more than anything

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Wtf does this have to do with her gender? Are you claiming she does not top the charts in celebrity carbon emissions, but is being used as the scapegoat instead of a man?

The Conservatives aren't attacking her because of her gender, it's because of ~~their~~ her influence. Misogyny has nothing to do with it, they'd do the exact same with any celebrity of any identity/orientation because they're influence conflicts with their agenda, not because of their gender.

This smells a lot like ground-laying for radical feminist arguments, I can't find any other reason you would be here making a mountain out of an imaginary anthill. Moreover, I can't understand why anyone upvoting this would care to see a non-humorous PSA in a "hello fellow teens" vaporware frame on a surrealist/(whatever it's called) shitposting community unless it is meant to be satire.

edit: gendered a pronoun to make it concise who the subject was

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

It's a valid criticism, I'm just wondering where 90% of those folks criticizing were the last 10 years, when it would have also been a valid criticism against her, but only a select group of people called it out and I recall precisely zero memes on this specific topic. Curious, that this has only become a mainstream meme now that there is a defamation campaign actively being conducted against her by right wing media.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I just... I can't bring myself to give a shit about Taylor Swift's airplanes when BP and Shell still exist and capitalism is still the dominant economic system.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

BP and Shell only have that much power exacly because people buy fossil fuels from them. If demand would drop, their profits and political power would drop accordingly. As long as we don't even hold the biggest financiers of these companies responsible, how can anything change? Demand drives supply.

It's like saying "As long as hitmans exist, I won't give a shit about the people who pay hitmans, all consumption under capitalism is unethical anyways so anything goes." As long as we ignore those who actually fund the problem, we won't be able to fix anything.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

No they have so much power because decades of lobbying have made it impossible to get anywhere without traveling on a road in a car— Which uses gas. This is not a problem citizens can feasibly solve, this sort if problem can only be fixed with government intervention.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Maybe this time we can solve our problems by simply just hating a powerful, successful woman though.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

*By simply hating a billionaire.

Some of the criticism levied against Taylor Swift is definitely rooted in sexism, misogyny, and political bias: but not all of it.

To lump everyone criticizing Taylor Swift into the same group as the misogynists and sexists is disingenuous. She deserves criticism and is not free of it just because she's a woman.

She's also one of the most famous people in the world. So of course she's going to get more flack from her visibility alone.

Thus the following can be true: Taylor Swift isn't the only one that deserves criticism from her private jet usage. And there are those that would criticize her in bad faith because of her political alignments/because she's a woman. But even then the criticism she has received is still completely valid.

No billionaire deserves or needs special treatment.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I mean yeah definitely fair, i don’t disagree billionaires shouldn’t exist.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

I appreciate the reply. I feel like a lot of people in this thread are failing to articulate themselves properly. Though there are clearly some commenters that have (very) misogynistic views that need to be checked.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Stop trying to make this about Swift being a woman.

She's getting all this attention about it because her legal team sent a cease and desist letter to the guy tracking her jet threatening him with legal action over priding publically available tracking information.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Na, she is getting this attention because some very powerful people, who benefit from producing a lot of greenhouse gases, would prefer that everyone be mad at T Swift instead of them.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Or, the much more likely thing that private jet usage has become a big talking point on the inter etc recently and swift having by far the biggest jet emission footprint of any celebrity.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Oh yeah, I agree, it is an interesting talking point. But If you have the goal of reducing green house gas emission, is memeing on T Swift the best target for that? Don't get me wrong it is hilarious. I just get really frustrated when people say they are doing it for the environment, when what they are doing is mostly ineffectual and playing into the desires of the major polluters (who are very wealthy).

So in my mind, either a large group of online environmentalist have decided to be less effective at working towards their goal for no reason. Or there is a significate astroturfing thing going on here. Given that oil companies have done this kind of thing multiple times in the past, I think I have a reasonable assumption. I smell bullshit and I am calling it.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (2 children)

How does this make her "actions wrong"? Because you disagree?

Yes, it's legal for him to do what he's doing, but it is also legal (and completely reasonable) for Swift to challenge that right because she fears for her safety. This is literally what our legal system is for.

There are a lot of insane people out there (and most of them tracking Swift's plane at this moment are right wing psychopaths that wish her harm). I really can't fucking blame her for wanting to do something about it.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

How is knowing at what airport an airplane is, public information that anyone can just pull up and find without that much know how, a massive risk to safety.

And if it is, hpw is she going to stop them from dping the neglegable research themselves

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

So you think it's perfectly moral for the ultra wealthy to abuse the legal system to threaten and bully random people into submission because they are ruining the billionaires image?

And again to reiterate, this is all publically available information, anyone who wants to track her jet can do so without the tracker that guy set up. She has no legal standing in her actions.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (9 children)

So you think it’s perfectly moral for the ultra wealthy to abuse the legal system to threaten and bully random people into submission because they are ruining the billionaires image?

Lol yeah bud, that's what I said.

Dude, I understand it's public information. I understand that current law (probably rightfully) allows air traffic to be tracked, including private jets.

I was simply doing something that you're clearly incapable of, and empathizing (you remember empathy right?) with her position. A position that is markedly different than Musk's, given that she receives a constant stream of legitimate death threats from people known to be violent; she has valid reason to fear for her life right now. I think I would probably do similar in such a situation.

I don't think it's "wrong" for her to seek to do what she can to protect herself, and that includes this.

The argument that "what they're doing is legal" is pretty stupid too... I'm not even saying that I disagree that it should be legal, but how do you think laws change? The boundaries of them get tested in courts. This is not an abuse of the legal system, this is using it as intended.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

There's no way musk doesnt get nearly a billion death threats per day, but when your job is to be known by as many people as possible, it scales up the good and the bad.

But if either of them are having a bad day I'm sure they can dry their tears with a couple hundred dollar bills and sue some more poor people into dust (completely legally!) to make themselves feel better

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

I would bet my next paycheck that Taylor Swift gets at least one order of magnitude more death threats on a daily basis than Elon Musk. At least.

Let's just say there are certain demographics that tend to lash out in that manner, and they seem to overlap quite a bit with Musk fans.

And yeah dude, I get it. They're billionaires, it's hard to empathize. I agree to a point that they should shut the fuck up and just wipe their tears away with $100 bills. But in this case, when we're talking about legitimate threats against her life constantly, by people who have shown to be very capable of carrying out such threats, then I can start to see why she is doing what she's doing. Just because she's got money doesn't mean she doesn't deserve to live a life free from that kind of fear.

That's all.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

I would bet my next paycheck that Taylor Swift gets at least one order of magnitude more death threats on a daily basis than Elon Musk. At least.

I worked in video games, and at one company there were five game designers, one of them a woman, the rest men.

I think she got a death/rape/etc threat once a week. One of the other designers had never even been messaged, and another designer was also the Community Manager. So, despite one guy being the literal face of the company, the single named woman on the design team got almost every single threat.

She left the industry, which is worse for it, but I don't think anyone thought she made the wrong choice.

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Is it really that bad with the Memes? It's not like people will see a Plane Meme and go "Time to vote for fascists!".

There are so many of them now because they are new and easy to make, I guess. Sure it's never nice If someone you like I getting memed about for a bad thing he/she did. But just wait some Time and they will turn down and then stop.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

You really should read up on how people are recruited to the alt right. It literally starts with comments like you just made. It's not a quick jump to "yay fascism" but you have already taken the first step.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Lol, they didn’t take the first step

They helped someone else take it

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Is this Reddit?

Gtfo I can’t downvote this shit enough.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Ah yes, a text post with informative links... This must be Reddit!

What could possibly even be your problem with this post?

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Insane to defend a multimillionaire just because shes a woman. Especially when she isnt even the first person the internet criticized for airplane waste.

Youre the person being mocked by eric andres "girl power" bit

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

I don't see any defending especially just because she's a woman, I see a post trying to point out that there's bigger better targets than the current popular one.

Choosing the most popular person there is right now seems counterintuitive to me either way.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Shes a target because she sent legal threats to a person posting public flight details about private flights.

For the same reason musk was a target, after he did the exact same thing for the exact same reason.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

I mean that's stupid, but I don't feel like that'd be the only reason nor does it actually matter in the full context of this post.

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