How about just living in the actual woods with no internet? Gets more tempting by the day.
Showerthoughts
A "Showerthought" is a simple term used to describe the thoughts that pop into your head while you're doing everyday things like taking a shower, driving, or just daydreaming. The most popular seem to be lighthearted clever little truths, hidden in daily life.
Here are some examples to inspire your own showerthoughts:
- Both “200” and “160” are 2 minutes in microwave math
- When you’re a kid, you don’t realize you’re also watching your mom and dad grow up.
- More dreams have been destroyed by alarm clocks than anything else
Rules
- All posts must be showerthoughts
- The entire showerthought must be in the title
- No politics
- If your topic is in a grey area, please phrase it to emphasize the fascinating aspects, not the dramatic aspects. You can do this by avoiding overly politicized terms such as "capitalism" and "communism". If you must make comparisons, you can say something is different without saying something is better/worse.
- A good place for politics is c/politicaldiscussion
- Posts must be original/unique
- Adhere to Lemmy's Code of Conduct and the TOS
If you made it this far, showerthoughts is accepting new mods. This community is generally tame so its not a lot of work, but having a few more mods would help reports get addressed a little sooner.
Whats it like to be a mod? Reports just show up as messages in your Lemmy inbox, and if a different mod has already addressed the report, the message goes away and you never worry about it.
Yeah but where i live its to damn hot
Too late, it's dead!
Yeah it certainly is
I have a testing website. I have never gave the address to absolutely anyone, ever. It's not linked with anything. It's just a silly html site living in a domain.
It's still being ping and probed to death by bad actors. No necessarily AI scrappers. But it's dozens or hundreds of http petitions a day for random places all over the world.
There's no black forest. It's all light up and under constant attack, every tree is already on fire.
That's because it's numerically possible to sweep through the entire IPv4 address range fairly trivially, especially if you do it in parallel with some kind of botnet, proverbially jiggling the digital door handles of every server in the world to see if any of them happen to be unlocked.
One wonders if switching to purely IPv6 will forestall this somewhat, as the number space is multiple orders of magnitude larger. That's only security through obscurity, though, and it's certain the bots will still find you eventually. Plus, if you have a doman name the attackers already know where you are — they can just look up your DNS record, which is what DNS records are for.
It's not as simple as "only security through obscurity". You could say the same thing for an encryption key of a certain length. The private key to a public key is still technically just an obscurity, but it's still impractical to actually go through the entire range
IPv6 is big enough where this obscurity becomes impractical to sweep. But of course, as you said, there may be other methods of finding your address
I like seeing them try and then thinking "begone thot! There is no entry for you"
In fact, I might make a honeypot that issues exactly that
nepenthes is the tool for that
Servers which are meant to be secure usually are configured to not react to pings and do not give out failure responses to unauthenticated requests. This should be viable for a authenticated only walled garden type website op is suggesting, no?
I have suggested a couple of times now that ActivityPub should implement an encryption layer for user authentication of requests and pings. It already has a system for instances vauching for each other. The situation is that users of "walled garden" instances in ActivityPub lack means of interfacing with public facing instances that doesnt leave the network open for scraping. I believe a pivot towards default registered users only content service built on encrypted handshakes, with the ability for servers to opt-in to serving content to unregistered users would make the whole network much more robust and less dependent on third party contingencies like CloudFlare.
Then again, maybe I should just be looking for a different network, I'm sure there are services in the blockchain/cryptosphere that take that approach, I just would rather participate in a network built on commons rather than financialization at it's core. Where is the protocol doing both hardened network and distributed volunteer instances?
There are several things you could do in that regard, I'm sure. Configure your services to listen only on weird ports, disable ICMP pings, jigger your scripts to return timeouts instead of error messages... Many of which might make your own life difficult, as well.
All of these are also completely counterproductive if you want your hosted service, whatever it is, to be accessible to others. Or maybe not, if you don't. The point is, the bots don't have to find every single web service and site with 100% accuracy. The hackers only have to get lucky once and stumble their way into e.g. someone's unsecured web host where they can push more malware, or a pile of files they can encrypt and demand a ransom, or personal information they can steal, or content they can scrape with their dumb AI, or whatever. But they can keep on trying until the sun burns out basically for free, and you have to stay lucky and under the radar forever.
In my case just to name an example I kind of need my site to be accessible to the public at large if I want to, er, actually make any sales.
But an IP can have multiple websites and even not return anything on plain IP access. How do crawlers find out about domains and unlinked subdomains? Do they even?
@kossa @dual_sport_dork If you're using HTTPS, which is by and large the norm nowadays, then every domain is going to be trivially discoverable via certificate transparency logs: https://social.cryptography.dog/@ansuz/115592837662781553
Thanks for the link!
thinking about this, wouldn't the best way to hide a modern websie be something along getting a wildcard domain cert (can be done with LE with DNS challenge), cnaming the wildcard to the root domain and then hosting the website on a random subdomain string ? am I missing something
I do something something like this using wildcard certs with Let's Encrypt. Except I go one step further because my ISP blocks incoming data on common ports so I end up using an uncommon port as well.
I'm not hosting anything important and I don't need to always access to it, it's mostly just for fun for myself.
Accessing my site ends up looking like https://randomsubdomain.registered-domain-name.com:4444/
My logs only ever show my own activity. I'm sure there are downsides to using uncommon ports but I mitigate that by adjusting my personal life to not caring about being connected to my stuff at all times.
I get to have my little hobby in my own corner of the internet without the worry of bots or AI.
I love your "multiple orders of magnitude". I don't think you appreciate or realise how much larger ipv6 address space is :)
I wasn't going to type that many commas for the sake of brevity, but it's 340,282,366,920,938,463,463,374,607,431,768,211,456 possible addresses. I.e. 2^128^. So yes, I do.
I consider 96 orders (in binary, anyway) as "multiple." Wouldn't you?
No need to be defensive. I'm not insulting, I just find it funny :) usually people call that "dozens". But dozens of orders of magnitude really doesn't give the sense of scale.
You could have 8 billion in habitants in every 10^24 stars in the universe and everyone could still have 42k addresses.
I have a DDNS setup. Pretty random site name. Nonetheless, it’s been found and constantly probed. Lots of stuff from Russia, China, a few countries in Africa, and India. A smattering of others, but those are the constant IPs that are probing or attempting logins.
DNS only translate a string address (www.mywebsite.com) to its IP address (xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx) so that it is easier to remember.
Bots just try a range of address and they don't need to know your domain name. You could have the most unintelligible domain name in the world, bots would still ping your website because they use direct IP addresses.
Do you know how they find it? Is it just random input of address over and over?
Almost certainly. There are only 4,294,967,296 possible IPv4 addresses, i.e. 4.3ish billion, which sounds like a lot but in computer terms really isn't. You can scan them in parallel, and if you're an advanced script kiddie you could even exclude ranges that you know belong to unexciting organizations like Google and Microsoft, which are probably not worth spending your time messing with.
If you had a botnet of 8,000 or so devices and employed a probably unrealistically generous timeout of 15 seconds, i.e. four attempts per minute per device, you could scan the entire IPv4 range in just a hair over 93 days and that's before excluding any known pointless address blocks. If you only spent a second on each ping you could do it in about six days.
For the sake of argument, cybercriminals are already operating botnets with upwards of 100,000 compromised machines doing their bidding. That bidding could well be (and probably is) probing random web servers for vulnerabilities. The largest confirmed botnet was the 911 S5 which contained about 19 million devices.
If it's https it's discoverable by hostname.
https://0xffsec.com/handbook/information-gathering/subdomain-enumeration/#certificate-transparency
Certificate Transparency (CT) is an Internet security standard and open-source framework for monitoring and auditing digital certificates. It creates a system of public logs to record all certificates issued by publicly trusted CAs, allowing efficient identification of mistakenly or maliciously issued certificates.
I don't know exactly how they do it, but probing every ipv4 address isn't that hard
Is this hopeposting ?
Kinda yeah, it's what I thought lemmy would be, but more and more it isn't
How is Gemini fairing in the existing bot landscape? Usenet?
Fabulous insight. I think that would make me very happy. Bring back the forests! Burn down the Nazi trees!
That’s not just a fabulous insight, it’s a powerful revelation!
Damn, how was this not big headline news?
China and Russia do this shit all the time. Now they used a new tool. It's really not big headline news. I'd love for it to be and burst that AI bubble tho.
The last reduct of mankind against the machines? Let's call it Sion
I think you're on to something maybe make a movie
Back in the days of dial up and bbs this was a problem but you would still get robots trying to connect to modems by dialing every phone number possible.
War dialing! Those were the days. I lived in a city where war dialing was illegal, but that didn't stop me... maybe that's just an admission of stupidity though. Definitely had some cool stuff come from it though.
~shhh~ ~they'll~ ~hear~ ~you!~
FUCK WE'RE TOO LATE, YOU ACTIVATED THE BOTS! YOU DOOMED US!
My bad, I'm sorry
Isn't that what TOR-based .onion sites are for?
Unfortunately I've no idea
Disconnection is the only solution, walled gardens, paid or by invite, that prevent all the shit corporate America fills the commons with.
Paid subs is no good but invite only is a good idea but how do you distinguish invite to a person compared to invite to a bot
This is something I'm very curious about. It seems like a really necessary utility in the future.
A way for people to validate other people but not totally blow away all privacy. Large group chats, email providers, etc already try to solve it. It would be cool to see some powerful open source tooling. Like what Signal is to E2E encrypted chats.
peaks out from behind tree
