this post was submitted on 25 Nov 2025
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Explain Like I'm Five

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[–] phoenixz@lemmy.ca 6 points 16 hours ago (3 children)

I think socialism is awesome but capitalism, when highly restrained, is more effective at generating capital.

I think a few fairly simple steps can merge the best of both.

Limit personal net worth to, say, 01 million dollars. Companies can have a networth of, say, 1 billion tops. Below that, put like 10 or so tax brackets, the more you're worth, the more you pay tax. Anything over those limits goes 100% to tax

This favors many smaller companies working together instead of one huge monster that can't even take care of itself and requires regular bailouts

The tax income will be more than enough to support a large socialist system that can take care of free education, free healthcare, etc, hell, even universal basic income

Best of capital generation,best of socialism.

[–] some_kind_of_guy@lemmy.world 3 points 16 hours ago* (last edited 16 hours ago) (1 children)

I would take it a step further and say all corporations must be worker-owned. Every employee has an equal share, and maybe there is a probationary period along with that to weed out the bad eggs. This alone naturally encourages organic growth (among other, greater benefits) because any new hire will divide the pie further.

[–] phoenixz@lemmy.ca 1 points 13 hours ago

Mmmm, sort of, I guess, depending a little on who does what different percentages maybe? A guy who does 4 hours vs a girly that works 8 hour day, for example, but yeah, there should be something like that

I still want to reward founders too, you need people to start something new, give them a bigger % or something, but those are details

Either way, if nobody can be filth rich anymore we should be able to get to a stable point where all people can work way less, where we focus less on consumerism, focus more on life.

[–] LifeInMultipleChoice@lemmy.world 2 points 14 hours ago* (last edited 14 hours ago) (1 children)

Unfortunately the 1 million dollar net worth would have to be modified by location. If the average house is hitting a half million most places, and passing $1 some places, they need to at least be able to be worth slightly more than their residence.

[–] phoenixz@lemmy.ca 1 points 13 hours ago

My idea requires some more work

I think this only works on a world wide scale. Make salaries all the same everywhere, one world coin.

Houses are currently extremely overvalued, real value for most houses is easily 3X less than they go for now

Most houses could go for under a million. Two people live there, a 10M cap gets you very nice house with loads of room to spare, still.

If anything, the 10 million cap seems too high still

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[–] ArtVandelay@lemmy.world 20 points 22 hours ago (3 children)

Ask a typical American what they hate about socialism and they will perfectly describe capitalism

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[–] bss03@infosec.pub 5 points 17 hours ago* (last edited 16 hours ago) (4 children)

People hate socialism because they believe it is a right/freedom be able to privately own and control the "means of production" from tools to assembly lines to mines and groves.

Thatcher said it best: "There can be no liberty unless there is economic liberty." and by economic liberty she means that ability to own / exclusively control any (non-sentient) thing.


(end LI5)

Personally, I think authoritarian socialism (sometimes called "communism") is problematic due to the authoritarian part. I think libertarian socialism (often called "anarchism") is problematic because "warlords" (selfish people willing to use violence to hoard property) will naturally arise from any sufficiently large group and I think they are best opposed via a State with a "monopoly" on violence. But, I am convinced that rent-seeking behavior has been choking Capitalism for a while and it's only gotten worse since I was born (1980)... something needs to rein it in, and I think that something has to be very democratic and significantly socialist, but I don't really have a name for it myself.

[–] BlameTheAntifa@lemmy.world 1 points 16 hours ago (2 children)

There is no such thing as authoritarian socialism, that is a paradox. Marx and Lenin argued that the only viable path to communism as an ends, which involves the withering away of the state, required a transitionary period.

Marx proposed something akin to direct democracy — which he called dictatorship of the proletariat — while Lenin proposed the idea of a centralized, rightist vanguard party that would seize power on behalf of the people and oversee the transition. Rightist means to leftist ends. It was a gamble that did not succeed as Lenin’s illness and death, and the rise of Stalinism, remade the vanguard into a permanent new ruling class in direct conflict with Marx’s stated ethos.

[–] bss03@infosec.pub 2 points 15 hours ago (1 children)

Lenin proposed the idea of a centralized, rightist vanguard party that would seize power on behalf of the people

Which became "communism" / authoritarian socialism.

[–] BlameTheAntifa@lemmy.world 2 points 15 hours ago (1 children)

“Withering away of the state” and “it’s like, how much more STATE can you get? The answer is none. None more state” are extreme opposites.

Did the state wither away? No. Then communism was not accomplished.

Stalinism was as communist as Hitler’s National Socialists were socialist. False branding is a hallmark of rightism. Their propagandized, muddied, impoverished use of language does not magically turn their little hand-carved lies into real boys.

[–] bss03@infosec.pub 2 points 14 hours ago (1 children)

I'm using the standard meaning of authoritarian socialism: "Academics, political commentators and other scholars tend to distinguish between authoritarian socialist and democratic socialist states, with the first represented in the Soviet Bloc"

[–] BlameTheAntifa@lemmy.world -1 points 13 hours ago

I know what you are using. It’s capitalist propaganda and always has been. We need to stop using paradoxical terminology that was designed deliberately to confuse and terrify. What you are describing is literally known as “state capitalism.” Funny how that, like all the intentional-by-design failings of capitalism, gets rebranded as “socialism” in an effort to preserve capitalism’s entirely-gaslit reputation.

Socialism demands equality and equity, which fundamentally cannot exist in a stratified society. If there is a ruling class, they own and control the economy and nothing belongs to the people. So like I said, it’s paradoxical.

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[–] favoredponcho@lemmy.zip 15 points 23 hours ago

The US is run by very rich people who benefit from the current system.

[–] aeternum@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 points 16 hours ago

You answered your own question. Taking care of neighbours is socialism so fuck that. I got mine, fuck you!

[–] Tedesche@lemmy.world 5 points 19 hours ago (1 children)

Socialism’s critics believe that people who receive government aid become reliant on it and cease making an effort to become self-sufficient.

As someone who works in community mental health, I sadly have to admit that those criticisms aren’t entirely false. Ironically, I think the fact that the government organizations that implement these social safety nets being underfunded contributes to the problem. Because it takes so long to obtain benefits like disability (SSD/I in America), people don’t want to risk getting a job, potentially losing it, and having to go through the long, arduous disability application process again. So they just learn to be content living on disability pay and food stamps.

But that’s disability. I don’t think the same applies to just public assistance (which you can’t live off of) and SNAP.

Anyway, despite there being a kernel of truth in said criticisms, they’re largely off-base. I think a lot of the critics also confuse socialism with communism, and don’t realize that all most socialists desire is a system like European countries have, which is proven to work and not threaten capitalism. Then there are the really sick fucks who believe in social Darwinism and genuinely think poor people deserve to be so, and that it would be just for them to die off. But thankfully, those are in the extreme minority.

[–] 2FortGaming@lemmy.world 5 points 17 hours ago (1 children)

This reminds me of my friend's dad. He got crippled at a machanic job, so he's on disability, but he still wants to be useful in his life and use his skills, so he does machanic stuff on the side. Some people might think this is cheating, but he can only reasonably work on cars like 15hrs a week, or it'll fuck up his back so much he can't walk for a couple of days.

A messed-up situation that some people get into is that some of these programs have a cut-off if you make too much money, but if you actually make that much money in income, you'll have less than you would if you were slightly under that amount, because you have to pay for what those benefits would have given you otherwise.

It basically makes people stuck near the poverty line because these programs don't really give that much assistance. In my state if you're a family of three, the most you can earn is $915 a month in household income and the average payment is $221. This isn't counting the other benefits you'd get booted off of if you reached different income brackets.

I'm looking at this living wage site right now https://livingwage.mit.edu/states/39 and from this page you can see that 2 working adults can't both work your average Food Preparation & Serving Related, Building & Grounds Cleaning & Maintenance or Personal Care & Service job and be above to cover your average annual expenses if you have a single kid. So it's really not worth it to get off these benefits unless you find a significantly better job than what's available. Most of the other employment opportunities need some sort of education or experience as well.

Please correct me if I'm off base on any of this

[–] Tedesche@lemmy.world 1 points 13 hours ago

No, that sounds pretty on-point to me. The only additional thing I’d mention is that when you’re working, you’re paying into social security through your taxes, which—if you do it for long enough—sets you up much better for retirement than you will be if you’re still reliant on disability when you’re 65. So, that’s an additional incentive to work, which I tell my clients all the time, but for most of us, planning that far into the future is actually kind of difficult.

[–] Star@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 13 hours ago (1 children)

What a hilarious place to come ask this lol

Nothing is wrong with socialism except that maybe it doesn't go far enough

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[–] SoftestSapphic@lemmy.world 17 points 1 day ago (1 children)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Scare

It's pretty much all US propaganda that makes people hate socialism

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[–] BarneyPiccolo@lemmy.today 25 points 1 day ago

It's propaganda. The reality is that much of our system is already Socialized. In fact, some of the best stuff in our society is Socialist.

Schools, libraries, fire departments, police, military, parks, roads, etc. are all Socialist concepts at their foundation.

Fire Departments used to work by subscription. A building owner would pay a local fire brigade for protection. He would get a small cast iron badge that he'd place next to his doorway. If a building caught fire, the fire brigade would show up, and if there was a a "fire mark," they'd fight the fire. If there wasn't a fire mark, they'd let it burn down. That is a strictly Capitalist concept.

It was eventually decided that public tax money would be used to protect EVERYBODY from fire, which is a Socialist concept. The old subscription-based fire brigade concept evolved into the predatory insurance industry, a Capitalist concept which has been preying upon us ever since.

Like most political philosophies, Socialism has its positives and negatives. Any political philosophy, taken to its most extreme ends, would be a disaster. The best governments take the most successful parts of any philosophy, and rejects the bad parts. A pure Democratic/Republican/Socialist government would be terrible, but a combination of the best elements, could be really great.

MAGA is not a legitimate political philosophy. it's core tenets include treason, corruption, racism, bigotry, violence, pedophilia, misogyny, intolerance, ignorance, and incompetence. MAGA is a criminal enterprise disguising itself as a legitimate political movement, and it's influence must be fully purged from our government and our society.

[–] arendjr@programming.dev 6 points 21 hours ago* (last edited 14 hours ago) (1 children)

I think it’s fear. People fear that their country doesn’t produce enough and isn’t wealthy enough to support an army that is capable enough to keep any real or imagined enemies at bay. Add a good amount of corruption and propaganda to it, and you get a perpetual cycle where this fear needs continuous fuelling.

The worst part of it is that the fear isn’t entirely unjustified. As the Ukraine war shows, predators will try to pray on the weak, and Europe has been complacent about its own defence.

That doesn’t mean I think capitalism is the answer of course, but it is a horribly delicate balancing act to consider all concerns.

[–] Shanedino@lemmy.world 2 points 20 hours ago (1 children)

I think you meant to say unjustified.

[–] arendjr@programming.dev 1 points 14 hours ago

Fixed, thank you.

[–] HugeNerd@lemmy.ca 1 points 15 hours ago

Only if you're in the military or a billionaire.

[–] syreus@lemmy.world 8 points 1 day ago

The most common gripe I hear is that because not all labor is similar[EG: Healthcare vs Mining] there is no easy way to make sure that people are putting in the same value into the system. For people that already mistakenly believe there is a large group of "lazy immigrants" draining resources in the current system, this is a deal breaker. The internal logic isn't too much to swallow its just a hurdle to get people to sit long enough to hear the answer. They would rather fight over the crumbs than share the whole because somehow thats more "fair".

[–] Reygle@lemmy.world 4 points 21 hours ago* (last edited 21 hours ago)
[–] rumschlumpel@feddit.org 213 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (9 children)

Propaganda works.

Arguments I hear are usually something along the lines of "it's going to destroy the economy", "it destroys jobs", "I'm rich and they'll tax me a lot" (said by people who aren't actually rich). Also, confusing social democracy (Germany, Nordic countries) with what the Soviet Union and China were doing.

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[–] Rivalarrival@lemmy.today 44 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

The people who hate it are those who think themselves better than their peers. They think they deserve more than their peers, and that socialism transfers their superior effort to the benefit of their inferiors.

They see socialism not as everyone helping everyone, but as they, the successful being forced to support them, the lazy.

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[–] ICastFist@programming.dev 14 points 1 day ago

It's mostly thanks to USA propaganda and the whole "Red Scare" that began in the 1950s

I mean doesn't it mean a system where the people take care of themselves and neighbors?

Not really, the system is supposed to be about a government and economy that cares about the well being of its people first, such that several wealth distribution methods would be applied to ensure minimal inequality.

[–] lmmarsano@lemmynsfw.com 20 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (3 children)

There are various kinds of socialism. Some "take care of themselves and neighbors" & some merely claim to.

One of the merely claims types is authoritarian socialism, which includes Marxism–Leninism.

Authoritarian socialism, or socialism from above, is an economic and political system supporting some form of socialist economics while rejecting political pluralism. As a term, it represents a set of economic-political systems describing themselves as "socialist" and rejecting the liberal-democratic concepts of multi-party politics, freedom of assembly, habeas corpus, and freedom of expression, either due to fear of counter-revolution or as a means to socialist ends.

That ideology does not respect & protect inherent individual rights & liberties recognized since the Enlightenment. Authoritarian socialism is hated for abusing human rights, and it's often incorrectly assumed that all socialism is authoritarian. That explains the hatred.

Kinds of socialism that respect & protect human rights do exist, however, and they have a better claim to a system of self & mutual care. There's little reason to hate those.

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[–] Tiger666@lemmy.ca 7 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

No, its means workers control the means of production.

Edit: Im getting really tired of people conflating socialism with social programs. Its not socialism when the government does something, stop saying it is.

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