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LibreOffice wee (lemmy.dbzer0.com)
submitted 21 hours ago* (last edited 21 hours ago) by Stamets@lemmy.dbzer0.com to c/whitepeopletwitter@sh.itjust.works
 

Now. Why am I wrong for Libre

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[–] JackbyDev@programming.dev 14 points 4 hours ago (1 children)

I just want to write Markdown. I just want to write Markdown. I just want to write Markdown. I just want to write Markdown.

The thing I really hate about modern word processors and everyone's obsession with PDFs is that the vast majority of the time things will never be printed, but everything still focuses on paginated formats. Nobody seems to get this but you can literally send someone a .HTML file that they can just open in their browsers. Even when I tell developers about this they say dumb things like a single file will load slower. Buddy, it's loading from the disk, it's not querying shit, it is okay to make it a single HTML file.

But no, fuck you, just pages and PDFs.

The silver lining is that at least Google Docs (I don't use other editors often) now has a "pageless" mode. But the amount of times I've run into weird things like accidentally backspacing the last character of something with special formatting only to undo it, add extra characters temporarily, then backspace in front of it... Fucking hell. Just let me write Markdown. Just let me write Markdown! JUST LET ME WRITE MARKDOWN!

[–] Stamets@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 3 hours ago* (last edited 3 hours ago) (1 children)

Obsidian. Great notes app with a ton of features and is free. Open source too, I think, but could be wrong on that. I usually am. But it's all in markdown baby! I use it for my dnd world and notes.

[–] AnarchistArtificer@slrpnk.net 3 points 1 hour ago

Unless they've open-sourced it in the last year or so, Obsidian isn't open source. That being said, it does have big vibes of open source. Like, there's more to open source than simply the source code being available — it's also about the general ethos of openness. When I was using Obsidian, I felt reassured that my notes were my own, and they would still function mostly the same if Obsidian went under. It's a big part of why I switched to it from Notion

[–] julianwgs@discuss.tchncs.de 6 points 5 hours ago

There is LaTex which I would recommend for any kind of longer document.

[–] Matriks404@lemmy.world 4 points 6 hours ago* (last edited 6 hours ago) (1 children)

Yeah, sure, but Microsoft Word web app scrolls smoother than native LibreOffice Writer on my laptop (on Linux), and there are also other bits of LibreOffice that sucks and have sucked for years.

[–] Stitch0815@feddit.org 6 points 4 hours ago

I think the main difference here is: You don't have to pay for libre office.

[–] LiveLM@lemmy.zip 54 points 13 hours ago* (last edited 13 hours ago) (7 children)

Wanna know something fun about Office?
The keyboard shortcuts are localized.

YES, REALLY.

If you press Ctrl+S when running in Portuguese, it doesn't save, it underlines the word instead (Because the word for it is "Sublinhar").

Whoever is responsible for this decision won't die, when their time comes they'll be swallowed alive by the earth and welcomed into the 10th circle of hell, created for them exclusively.

The 11th circle is reserved for he who decided to localize the Excel Formula Functions too.

[–] Flip@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 3 hours ago

I HATE this. Got absolutely shellshocked by this on a work computer recently.

Luckily, you can "just" change your locale! This is a process that took me a whole hour to figure out, required admin access as well as a system reboot. And it didn't even work properly.

The same day I ran into a quirk regarding the filename field. Fun fact: Word pulls this directly from the OS. This almost makes sense, except if you want to decide whether or not the file ending is displayed (ie .word). Then you need to set this IN YOUR OS?! There is no other way to set this, and it is broken. When you finally figure this out and set it back to not display the file ending, word keeps doing it, seemingly forever. Yes also through reboots. This issue was fixed over 10 years ago, and then promptly reintroduced and never addressed again. Libreoffice just has another field, this took me all of 30 seconds to discover. But then you have to save in odf, because the word format is ass apparently.

[–] FalschgeldFurkan@lemmy.world 3 points 4 hours ago

The commands in Excel are localised too, and if you want to change languages you'd have to install some language pack. And I think that due to admin lockdown policies in Windows, if you have to work on a restricted company machine, you won't even be able to do that because you don't have permission to install stuff

[–] wieson@feddit.org 4 points 5 hours ago

Well, Ctrl+S is def what I would expect my programme to do for saving. But for Italics I want nothing else but Strg+Umschalt+K. English hegemony can get bent.

[–] SaharaMaleikuhm@feddit.org 10 points 12 hours ago

I sure am glad I just use English on all my devices despite it not being my native language.

[–] ulterno@programming.dev 0 points 5 hours ago

So the Japanese version would require Ctrl+ほ?

[–] nialv7@lemmy.world 4 points 11 hours ago (1 children)

Many such wacky cases in Windows. Like where you install your software ("Program Files") is localized too.

[–] uniquethrowagay@feddit.org 1 points 5 hours ago (1 children)

It's only half localized though, the actual path is still called program files. It just displays the localized name. Which is somehow even worse.

[–] nialv7@lemmy.world 1 points 4 hours ago* (last edited 4 hours ago)

I haven't used a localized version of Windows so I don't know for sure, but sources I can find says it's actually different in different languages: https://www.samlogic.net/articles/program-files-folder-different-languages.htm

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[–] merc@sh.itjust.works 36 points 15 hours ago (6 children)

Microsoft has had a monopoly on office software since the 90s. They illegally leveraged this monopoly to try to destroy competition in other areas. Most infamously, they destroyed Netscape to try to kill competition in the early Internet space. That resulted in a trial for illegally abusing their monopoly which they lost. Then George W. Bush was elected president, and somehow Microsoft effectively got off with essentially no punishment. Admittedly though, part of that was that the judge in the case was so outraged at some of the stuff Microsoft pulled (submitting falsified evidence, having Bill Gates lie under oath repeatedly) that he talked about it in public when he shouldn't, which opened a door for Microsoft to try to weasel out of the loss.

The "evil" in Google's motto "Don't be evil" was widely viewed as being Microsoft. Google was an Internet company in an age where Microsoft was on trial for using their power to make everything about the Internet shitty so that they could control it. In the early days of Google, people weren't even allowed to use Microsoft software, including Windows, without a special dispensation from the higher-ups. Microsoft effectively avoided any kind of punishment for their abuse of their monopoly, but it distracted them and made them cautious, so they weren't able to crush Google before it could get going. Before anybody chimes in about how Google is evil, first read up in what Microsoft did. Google might be a bit shady, but where Google got its monopoly by spending hundreds of billions to make its search engine the default, Microsoft used tactics to destroy potential competitors and drive them out of business.

If the US (and the world) had effective enforcement of the anti-monopoly laws, Word would actually have to compete on its own merits. But, because it's a monopoly, Microsoft can just sit back and keep collecting rent.

[–] SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca 6 points 8 hours ago (1 children)

Microsoft hurt Netscape, but it was AOL that killed it. At the height of the dotcom bubble, Wall street handed AOL more money than they knew what to do with so AOL bought Netscape. Of course they didn't have any idea what to do with it (they still kept putting IE on the discs they mailed out to people even when they owned Netscape) and it eventually withered away and died.

The people that ran Netscape correctly predicted it would go this way, but it was a ridiculous amount of money AOL was offering. Luckily they made releasing the code as open source as part of the deal.

[–] merc@sh.itjust.works 2 points 4 hours ago* (last edited 4 hours ago)

No, your revisionist history is wrong. By the time AOL acquired it, Microsoft's damage had already been done. Its stock price had fallen 50% from its peak value.

The reason AOL didn't know what to do with Netscape is that it was no longer a viable business due to the interference from Microsoft. Up until Microsoft started giving away Internet Explorer for free as part of the OS, the plan for Netscape was to charge for the browser. That was perfectly normal. People charged for every piece of software up until then. But, when they had to compete with Microsoft's price of free, they had no real business model anymore.

That's the whole reason that Microsoft was charged with violating antitrust law. They leveraged their operating system monopoly to enter a new business and destroy their main competitor. Even with their falsifying evidence and Bill Gates lying on the stand, it was an open and shut case.

[–] Samskara@sh.itjust.works 5 points 11 hours ago (3 children)

Microsoft did lots of shady shit to leverage their quasi monopoly on PC operating systems. However Microsoft Office was actually better than the competition in many aspects. The main competition for Microsoft Office was IBM's Smart Suite. Excel left industry leader Lotus 1-2-3 in the dust pretty quickly in the early 1990s. MS Word was also better than market leader WordPerfect. Then in the late 1990s Outlook became leading and is still unmatched by anything else. Softmaker Office is the only office suite that still exists from back then.

[–] merc@sh.itjust.works 6 points 10 hours ago* (last edited 10 hours ago)

WordPerfect was the leading word processing program under DOS. When Windows was released Microsoft screwed with them by not giving them full access to all the Windows APIs (something Microsoft was notorious for). Surprise, surprise, at the same time Microsoft was not giving WordPerfect the API info they needed, they were releasing their own competitive word processor in Word.

But, once WordPerfect got access to the APIs, they produced a word processor that was superior to Word. The only reason that Word took off is that Microsoft aggressively bundled it with everything.

As for Outlook, I've never met anybody who actually likes it. The only thing it has going for it is that it's available by default and it's the only thing compatible with emails from other Outlook users. There's a reason its nickname is "outhouse". Outlook did the same things that Microsoft did with HTML and HTTP: embrace, extend, extinguish. They took de-facto and de-jure email standards and modified them so that only other Outlook users could use the email properly. They made sure that if you tried to use anything other than Outlook with Microsoft Exchange, that it wouldn't quite work right.

With Microsoft it's always about taking their monopoly in one area and squeezing another area, driving their competitors away. It's what they're now doing with developer tools, like github and visual studio code.

[–] tangonov@lemmy.ca 4 points 9 hours ago* (last edited 9 hours ago) (1 children)

There is currently* nothing Microsoft Office does that I can't happily do in LibreOffice

[–] ohlaph@lemmy.world 1 points 6 hours ago

The only thing I miss is Excel. Nothing even compares. I use other stuff now, but man my spreadsheets used to be beautiful. Lol

[–] OsmerusMordax@sh.itjust.works 4 points 10 hours ago

MS Word is significantly worse than WordPerfect. Reveal codes FTW.

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[–] gandalf_der_12te@discuss.tchncs.de 23 points 15 hours ago

lol "edit your expectations" got me :D

[–] muse@piefed.blahaj.zone 20 points 15 hours ago

Want to automate your office document? Enjoy making your business dependent on a language

  • that will be a dead end for your developer career
  • where arrays can start at 0 or 1
  • where checking for an array involves ignoring an error and resuming
  • that is guaranteed to be broken a future patch
  • that has to be given permission to run in a security center
[–] Diddlydee@feddit.uk 143 points 20 hours ago (6 children)

Whoever stole my MS office, I'll find you. You have my Word.

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[–] BenLeMan@lemmy.world 50 points 18 hours ago* (last edited 18 hours ago) (16 children)

Everyone complaining here about not being able to have unique footers or moving images or ignoring spelling errors just doesn't know what they're doing. You're literally the bad workman blaming the tool. I can do all of those things in Word.

If you prefer another tool, fine. But please stop shitting on things just because you don't understand them.

And PDF was never meant to be edited. Its sole purpose is to give you a document file which comes out exactly the same on computer screens and printers everywhere. Compact, reliable, compatible. If you need to replace parts of a PDF document post publication, it should be prepared using the Forms tools that are readily available in all good PDF suites.

By the way: I paid 30 Euros for an Office 2019 lifetime license. If ever that should not receive further updates then I'm ready to fork over another 30.

[–] AXLplosion@lemmy.zip 44 points 18 hours ago (8 children)

I was working on my thesis a couple days ago using Word, and it permanently deleted a whole line of text when I pressed ctrl+Z to undo a mistake.

That happened with every line on the page until i copied everything to a different text editor and then copied it back to Word.

I respect your take but I will never respect Word.

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[–] BanMe@lemmy.world 19 points 16 hours ago

I have made so many thousands of dollars in consulting fees because people don't know about the "align object: over text" option. I would even show them, and they'd still call me back the next week offering money.

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