this post was submitted on 09 Nov 2025
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[–] JanMayen@quokk.au 76 points 1 week ago (6 children)

You don't see any state run bread lines do you?

That's because they'd rather you starve, but the mafia has soup lines waiting for you.

[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 29 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

You don’t see any state run bread lines do you?

I remember getting extremely screamed at on Reddit when I posted "Bread Lines" and the picture of a line around the block at a grocery store on the eve of a hurricane.

Apparently, that's not a "real" bread line because idfk free markets or some shit.

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[–] rarsamx@lemmy.ca 66 points 1 week ago (22 children)

The reason of the confusion is clear.

The US propaganda has always equated Communism and totalitarianism.

It is bonkers that people in the USA cannot distinguish between an economic system and a political system.

Those two are distinct things. True communism is very democratic. But reading the Communist manifesto is heretic in the US and you are left with what your leaders tell you.

The Russian Revolution was communist but the USSR was never communist.

Right wing totalitarian dictators also use starvation of their own people as means of control.

What you are experiencing in the US is totalitarianism and while it hasn't gotten to USSR levels, it is going on that direction.

Food for thought: study the political system in China, you'd be surprised how it's actually more democratic than the current USA. Yes, the CCP controls the nominations. Now, tell me if there is true plurality in the US, two right wing parties selecting their candidates without any real popular input.

Really you've been bamboozled to think there is real democracy in the US.

[–] DreamlandLividity@lemmy.world 20 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (5 children)

The Russian Revolution was communist but the USSR was never communist.

Yes. But what does that mean? If I have a recipe for potion of immortality, but anyone that drinks the resulting potion dies instead, it's a bad recipe. It doesn't matter its promise of immortality sounds good.

Communism makes good promises. However, every time you have a communist revolution, it ends up being authoritarian instead. What does that say about the communist political system?

[–] save_the_humans@leminal.space 17 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (25 children)

More like every time there's been democratically elected socialists or communists, western powers intervene with staged coups, assassinations, or embargos.

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[–] flambonkscious@sh.itjust.works 9 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Ill be the patsy: You can't make rules to eliminate human greed / lust for power?

I'm very simplistic with this stuff and haven't studied it, but that seems to be the fundamental limitation with communism. Would work great with robots but we're more 'complex' with our subconscious bias, unexamined motives and insecurities driving our actions.

[–] I_Jedi@lemmy.today 4 points 1 week ago

I read a Chinese visual novel where society actual DID manage to eradicate humanity's greed/lust for power.

The biggest issue with the depicted society is that people live out their lives in ways deemed safe by the state. No one who lives in the society sees any problem with this, since their needs are cared for, and they're allowed to freely pursue interests the state considers safe. The society determined that any culture that existed before their rise to power has to be destroyed or locked up - introduction of such items can have a majorly destabilizing effect, and bring greed/lust for power back.

[–] BaldManGoomba@lemmy.world 8 points 1 week ago (5 children)

Every time a capitalist system is implemented the oligarchy grows and seizes power and some corrupt oligarchs usurp the power of the people. What does that say about capitalism? I think your generalized question is terribly bad faithed when every can point out the US system and straight capitalism is a failure also. Rather then generalized ideas and theory we look at all the systems and see what does work and how we can keep the power in the hands of people

I think the issue is corruption, power, and control. To have a capitalist society you must allow businesses do what they want or they will seize power. In a communist society power is centralized when it is focused on the state as a communistic in which power and control when questioned or control loosened gets cracked down.

Democratic Republicans are great but there is a few problems when they move so slow. One, what if the charter is never fixed when we add more rights. We just tack it on as precedent and never amend the charter.

Second,if the population is growing is it still representing people properly. I think having a representative for every 1 million people is to huge. And the fact we have disparities as large as 1 to million but then some have as low as 1 in 250k. Is unequal.

Third. I don't think as long as businesses hold power over an individuals life businesses should have political power. They hold to much currently. Also the fact through a business they can unlimitedly donate money but i as an individual can only spend $2,500(somewhere around there is the campaign cap)on a candidate is insane power wise.

Fourth a mixed economic/ business system would be wonderful a more planned economy by what citizens need would be nice. Also economy and business shouldn't be running the country. The individual people should.

Fifth States are stupid unless they can leave. The lines/borders are arbitrarily stupid and the fact the power federal is based on the lines fucks us up. If so chooses states should be able to break apart and make local states of the people so it is easier to have democratic control over your local area. Yes this means almost every state would become major cities and then the rural areas. Unless they want to partner with a city.

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[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 19 points 1 week ago (1 children)

True communism is very democratic.

At some point, you have to get passed "true whatever" and accept certain institutions already exist.

Also helps to recognize that communism as a movement has been anti-colonialist first and democratic only as it serves the former cause. Communists aren't receptive to a liberal democracy that allows half the people to sell out the other half.

Folks love to get lost in the sauce talking about what Marxism really truly means, as an ideology, without asking why people adopt it or how they apply it in practice.

[–] bobzer@lemmy.zip 7 points 1 week ago (3 children)

that allows half the people to sell out the other half.

Do you actually think that's worse than the elite deciding who is going to starve and who's going to be disappeared to maintain their power?

Why bother pretending to return the means of production to the worker only to rob them of their voice?

[–] Valmond@lemmy.world 5 points 1 week ago

You're discussing with a tankie. For them the gulags and the holodomor will only get the response "what about xyz in the west".

[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 4 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

Do you actually think that’s worse than the elite deciding who is going to starve and who’s going to be disappeared to maintain their power?

I think that's how it is accomplished. Divide and conquer.

Why bother pretending to return the means of production to the worker only to rob them of their voice?

Why do you believe elections are a voice of the people when they do routinely reproduce the plutocracy people say they despise?

[–] bobzer@lemmy.zip 4 points 1 week ago (1 children)

I think you've been living in a broken democracy too long, you can't examine it objectively anymore.

The alternative is that you actually believe authoritarianism to be morally superior, which is just disturbing.

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[–] LibertyLizard@slrpnk.net 5 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Call me naive if you want but I think we might want to aim for slightly more than another flavor of illusory democracy.

Although I have to say that the primary selection process in the US, while deeply flawed, is far more open for insurgent candidates than the Chinese system. See Mamdani for a recent example of how democratic elites don’t have total control of the outcomes.

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[–] abbadon420@sh.itjust.works 25 points 1 week ago (1 children)

At this point, this joke is basically like kicking a dead horse.

[–] Passerby6497@lemmy.world 22 points 1 week ago

Keep going an let's make MAGA glue

[–] aeternum@lemmy.blahaj.zone 25 points 1 week ago (3 children)

yeah, but that's different because this is BROWN PEOPLE, at least some of them. so it's completely different.

[–] HK65@sopuli.xyz 13 points 1 week ago

Well, in the USSR it was Ukrainians. Every authoritarian system find its outgroups.

[–] GreenShimada@lemmy.world 11 points 1 week ago

The largest demographic group receiving SNAP benefits is white people, at 37%, so (tries to do math like a racist) 63% assorted brown people!

But what really sells it to the 37% of white people in mostly red states with poor public education are things like this article about some super genius trolling where the first 3 groups alone add up to like 124%. I expect that the 17% of people who do not report ethnic demographics are largely white in the first place, and have been gaslit for so long that they won't report out of fear of being some sort of "race traitor" or some other stupid racist BS thing that idiots do.

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[–] Formfiller@lemmy.world 24 points 1 week ago

We’ve had communism for the wealthy as long as I can remember

[–] Pudutr0n@feddit.cl 22 points 1 week ago (2 children)

You know, some people get really worked up about how some sodas are really good and others are horrible. Healthwise they're all really just sugar water with some flavor and color sprinkled on top.

The flavoring and coloring are the least nutritionally relevant parts of the beverages and yet are what everyone obsesses over when discussing which of them is best.

The flavor doesn't change the nature of all the sugar, despite how different they feel to the palate.

A very costly lesson many maya people and other enemies of the aztec empire learnt after the spanish came to the americas was that the enemy of your enemy is not necessarily your friend.

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[–] fakir@piefed.social 16 points 1 week ago (2 children)

A greedy sociopathic leader with lack of empathy will always cause starvation, be it capitalism or communism or any other system anywhere. Shitty kings, dictators, and colonialists have always caused this since the beginning of time. It ain't about the system.

[–] baltakatei@sopuli.xyz 5 points 1 week ago (2 children)

The trick is to lock in a sustainable situation where power is spread out more than it is centralized. Democratic republics achieve this but, if your goal is simple “efficiency” (e.g. your personal political faction not restrained by rule of law) and you ignore the benefits of freedom of expression and movement that democracy gives you, then centralized autocratic control is tempting.

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[–] ZILtoid1991@lemmy.world 15 points 1 week ago

In my country, one evil of communism I always heard was "not being able to buy Adidas shoes and Levis jeans". But if capitalism makes it a de facto luxury product through devaluing your work, then it's tough luck.

[–] Lushed_Lungfish@lemmy.ca 15 points 1 week ago (26 children)

To be fair, a lot of communist revolution did result in mass starvation.

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[–] finitebanjo@lemmy.world 10 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (6 children)

Not exactly, no, you see what both the USSR and the CCP did was decentralize agricultural planning under the assumption that farmers would still grow enough food to feed everyone even if they weren't remunerated, resulting in tens of millions of deaths.

What the USA is doing is producing the food but not remunerating it. The end results might be the same but that is yet to be seen.

"Let them eat Soybeans."

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[–] uriel238@lemmy.blahaj.zone 9 points 1 week ago (4 children)

As a note, communism involves some ideas that are impossible or nearly so.

Imagine a society in which every person has exactly the same sociopolitical power as every other person; representatives and officials do not have additional power; that's a property of a truly communist society. We don't believe that can be done IRL.

Imagine a society in which everyone's needs are met for an extreme body of needs (say as defined by the UN Universal Declaration of Human RIghts). The only transients that exist either are in a short line to be issued a dwelling, or don't want one. Everyone is fed. Everyone has their own stuff. This isn't impossible, but is difficult as heck to reach.

Communism is a goal that a society tries to reach similar to a zero homicide rate We don't expect to get there, but we do want our society to ever get closer, as we discover new means to approach that limit.

We reach for the ideal of a communist society. We never expect to actually get there.

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[–] Nomorereddit@lemmy.today 8 points 1 week ago

Nah, we got fat reserves.

Source: we(i?) drink the gusher insides first then refill w mayo.

[–] eru@mouse.chitanda.moe 7 points 1 week ago (1 children)
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[–] RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.world 6 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

But it’s their fault for being poor. - Republicans

[–] humanspiral@lemmy.ca 5 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Also, in a famine, it is grossly unfair to put all blame on a single leader/government. In USSR's case, during global famine, the US insisted debt be paid in food, and the government had to react to extortionist farmer class (Kulak) pricing. It is entirely political to create narrative of opponents fault for everything, when they are faced with hard decisions that your country imposed on them.

In this case, it is especially eggregious to not only force starvation by executive decision in times of relative abundance, but to further provide IRS directives that would collect less (minimum corporate tax rules) from oligarchs, so that budget/revenue is further reduced, and excuse to continue starving people becomes a manufactured crisis.

[–] RaivoKulli@sopuli.xyz 11 points 1 week ago (14 children)

USSR leadership absolutely used forced requisition (sometimes leaving nothing to the farmers) as a tool of power and control and to punish the farmers. The leadership in USSR was pretty vitriolic towards the agrarian population and treated them like shit at least until later in the Union's life.

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[–] Tollana1234567@lemmy.today 4 points 1 week ago

its what dictators use to be exact.

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