Well, if the diaper baby doesn't accept it, too bad. This time Biden will be running the executive branch if any of donnie's cult try to start some stuff.
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What has given you the impression that Biden has the spine or brains to face off with that? He's not a fighter and the only thing he has any true ideology about is protecting Israel's genocide.
Theyll be breaking the door down to his office and the moron will probably try to "reach across the aisle" and they'll cut his hand off. Then his do-nothing AG will sit and wring his hands and pee in his pants because he heard someone say the word 'partisan'. The man's brain is about 30 years behind current events.
Just like in 2016, he called the election rigged and that he wouldn't accept the results. And then he won, and suddenly, all the wolf cries of "it's rigged" vanished into thin air and they started saying how it was the most significant election of all time, a true underdog come-from-behind win, and wow look how big the crowd size is at my inauguration, I bet Obama didn't pull a crowd like that! Nothing ever mentioned about it being rigged again except for how he should have won by even wider margins than he did.
I fucking hate Trump with every fiber of my body. How stupid do you have to be to look at this guy or listen to him speak and take away anything other than the fact that he's an egomaniac who has never been held accountable for anything in his entire life? If anybody ever says positive things about him in front of me for the rest of my life, that person is dead to me.
Even calling it an underdog story kind of betrays the truth that they did not expect to win, contrary to their claims that a loss would prove a rigged election.
They know it's rigged because they're the ones rigging the damn things
It's impossible for them to understand the idea that the Democrats might not also be desperately trying to counter-rig every election, and rather just have such a shit ton more voters outside the hostile voting environments that they still occasionally pull out a win now and then
Even if he wins he won't accept any states he lost that he thought he should've won. I could absolutely see a situation where Trump sues one of the Secretaries of State and tries to pull all the same shit he did in Georgia (which he has yet to be punished for, assuming he ever will be)
(which he has yet to be punished for, assuming he ever will be)
Federal courts are all punting these cases until after November. Even if he's convicted in New York, there's a good chance he just... refuses to go back to New York to be sentenced. Or perhaps they just don't get to sentencing until after the election, at which point it'll be a moot point.
He won in 2016 and he still didn't accept the result. He spent months insisting that the elections were rigged to prevent him from getting even larger margins, and then he turned the DOJ inside-out to pursue years of "election fraud" investigations intent on keeping a large Republican majority into 2018 (which failed anyway when his fickle white base turned on him).
Of course, Bush pulled the same shit during his time in office, running cover via his own DOJ for dozens of state gerrymandering campaigns (the Texas Gerrymander of 2005 stacked the deck for permanent Republican majority into the modern day). And Reagan pulled this shit via his captured Civil Rights Division before that. And Nixon before that.
When Trump wins in 2024, it will suck again. But it won't suck uniquely. This is an age-old fight, between a caged/disenfranchised popular majority and a wealthy manipulative white nationalist minority.
I strongly encourage everyone to watch the embedded video in the article.
Because we don't get many opportunities to see/hear Biden speak.
A lot of the shit we give trump about with his speaking, Biden does it too. It's just trump does a hell of a lot more public speaking than Biden.
Biden used to be literally the best public speaker in the party, that's why he almost won the 88 primary till all the plagiarism and lying about law school stuff came out and he started screaming at reporters that he was smarter than them.
They're both two fucking old, and so is Bernie and every other politician in the late 70s or 80s.
We're not talking about if someone that age can be a Walmart greeter to keep busy, this is literally the toughest and most stressful job in the country, if the person is actually doing their job.
And 80 year old just can't do it.
I'll tell you what. You can sit online all day complaining about the average age of our elected "representatives" or you you can mobilize to do something about it. Be politically active. Vote.
Or even run yourself or encourage others of an acceptable age to you to run.
The reason they are so fucking old is for the exact reason you'd expect: voter participation of those 65+ is about 3x of those 18-29.
So instead of party pursuing voters. Which is pretty much the entire point of the party, you think they should ignore a large voter block that is literally and inevitably going to be the future of the party in just a few decades?
May I ask how old you are?
You may ask and I may not answer.
But think about what you said. They pursue the voters that vote for them. When most of your voters are older then yeah, you cater to them. But I also think you grossly underestimate how much they DO actually do for younger voters.
Read Jacobin #40 for some perspective.
Because there’s now no viable option for president that will be held accountable for anything by their own party.
Sometimes it may seem this way but it really isn't. We get some of what we want. The equation is simple: Get some of what you want under a dem administration or most of what you don't want under a republican administration.
Our system is such that nobody gets 100% of what they want 100% of the time. So what you aim for is to get a party in with a platform that at least allows some of what you want to happen. By throwing up your hands and saying "well the dems are just as bad" and thus not voting you are essentially making it impossible for any of what you want to happen. If Trump wins you can kiss a supreme court majority goodbye. If Trump wins you can look forward to gutting any effort to promote renewables and hold the oil industry accountable. You can look forward to no woman being safe with her medical choices. The list here is enormous.
Meanwhile Biden has accomplished a lot. I don't like many of his policies, but I'm not blind to the good his administration has done. I think you are, so let me remind you of just a few:
- OTC birth control pills & EOs on reproductive rights
- Huge gains in renewable power
- Loosening cannabis restrictions
- Student loan forgiveness
- Big support for domestic semiconductor production
- Boosting cancer research
- Huge support for unions and unionization (this is a really big deal!)
- Transgender support & visibility (e.g. https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/presidential-actions/2024/03/29/a-proclamation-on-transgender-day-of-visibility-2024/)
Take any one of these things and imagine the opposite. That's what will happen under any republican administration.
You may not like Biden and I totally get that, but NEVER EVER think your vote doesn't matter just because you don't get exactly what you want. We got a decent amount and we CAN get more. Get Biden elected and then (a) be politically active for local and state elections; (b) protest: it works.
They pursue the voters that vote for them.
If that was true, after Obama flipped a bunch of red states, the party would have moved to younger more progressive candidates. Hell, they'd have done it after Bill.
Instead they kept running the same candidates that lost to Obama. Even tho by then they were older and even more out of touch.
Meanwhile the DNC has consistently made changes that limit the chances of a popular candidate against the party's pre selected pick.
Like, I'd have to ignore the last 30 years of American political history.
Clinton and Obama were two of the youngest presidents we've had, and they ran the most progressive campaigns since FDR and killed it.
It took trump in office for an older moderate to win, but that's consistently the type of candidate the party props up.
And youre acting like those are things that are solved...
It took Bernie pulling Biden left for him to promise to solve some of those things, and he failed to meet his promise. Most are just crumbs that we recently got only because the election is coming up.
Voters want more, and more voters would come out for the candidate
If that was true, after Obama flipped a bunch of red states, the party would have moved to younger more progressive candidates.
Huh? That completely doesn't follow.
Maybe I wasn't clear. Let me try again: When you know that only a tiny fraction of 18-30 year olds are going to even vote, you don't bother putting forth policies that appeal to them. Instead, you put forth policies that appeal to the largest percentage of voters you can hope to get. So Obama and Hillary both balanced a more progressive agenda against the need to attract voters. They knew for example, that universal healthcare was popular among younger voters but not popular with boomers and even a large chunk of Gen X. So which did you think they went with?
It's not rocket surgery, it's basic math.
Meanwhile the DNC has consistently made changes that limit the chances of a popular candidate
This is true. But are you gonnna just throw up your hands or are you going to do something about it? Do you think not voting or not voting for Biden will make it more or less likely you will get a Dem candidate that appeals to you down the road? There's a decent possibility you will get NO Dem candidate at all.
I have to be honest. I think you are ignoring the power you have. That WE have. It was absolutely not Bernie that helped Biden do anything. It was Biden recognizing that folks like us want a more progressive agenda and using Bernie to help make the case that he was in fact leaning in that direction. He has to acknowledge some of the progressive agenda to win younger votes but at the same time he has to appeal to the far larger chunk of folks who will, you know, actually vote.
I also think you are expressing a point of view that is rather troubling to me. That you think you will get everything you want instantly out of our political system. Change is incremental and slow. It is built one piece at a time on a foundation of Democratic party wins that allow us to appoint judges and enact legislation that maybe doesn't get where we want to go in the first pass, but allows it to happen the next time. Younger folks have trouble conceptualizing this, and it's understandable - your time scale is smaller.
So if you want to see change you need to: 1. Vote EVERY TIME; 2. Protest and push for progressive policies; 3. Support younger candidates; 4. Acknowledge this is a long game.
When you know that only a tiny fraction of 18-30 year olds are going to even vote,
Except they do when they get a good candidate...
Biden coasted with them last year because he was only known as Obama's VP and his TV appearances back then.
But young people are idealistic, they have standards.
If we run a candidate that meets those standards, we don't lose any votes. We even gain some from older demographics because some people keep their ideals.
The only negative to running popular candidates is it upset donors. And instead of doing that, the DNC keeps making new loopholes so they can donate even more, because it's the only way to get the unpopular candidates.
This system is Ludacris like it's from St Louis, we've gone straight past plaid, and most people seem to be completely fine with it.
When it can be sooo much better if we just stopped accepting that politicians have to suck.
Except they do when they get a good candidate…
Which is exactly my point and exactly the problem even if your assertion is not well supported by the data.
"We'll only vote if you give us our perfect ideal candidate" - ignoring that (a) you can't get everything you want in a candidate; (b) other people get a say too; (c) getting a directionally ok candidate is far better than getting a directionally bad candidate; (d) "good" candidate is a highly subjective assessment. Not all folks 18-whatever are all that progressive.
I gotta admit you come across as rather entitled or at least rather immature. You are demanding the system cater exactly to your specific needs and refuse to participate if it doesn't.
“We’ll only vote if you give us our perfect ideal candidate
The big ask right now is he stops funding a genocide and encouraging police actions against peaceful protestors...
To you that's "perfect ideal candidate"?
Bud, if you want to know what that would be for me, we're gonna be here for a while, it's a long list.
I gotta admit you come across as rather entitled or at least rather immature
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We're talking about what a demographic will do. Please stop getting personal.
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If "don't find a genocide" is too much of an ask, that demographic will reconsider if they belong with that party.
Neither party is entitled to someones vote, that's the entire reason we have campaigns.
If a certain type of candidate can't get votes, but another will...
Why pick the unpopular one?
Shouldn't Dem primary voters vote for the candidate that will get the most votes in the general?
Isn't that the most rational course?
Edit:
To be clear, I mean the primary voters in the hand full of states that get to vote before the DNC declared it over.
And that's not NH anymore, because they kept voting progressive.
I wasn't trying to make it personal, but I do find the kind of attitude you display to be somewhat entitled. And it also displays an admirably idealistic but not very realistic view of the political system that we are stuck with.
The big ask right now is he stops funding a genocide and encouraging police actions against peaceful protestors
You are not going to get that. As far as I am concerned the entire system is corrupt. The military industrial complex is far far too powerful, as are the neocon capitalist forces that essentially call the shots. Guess what? That doesn't get changed by sitting out an election. It doesn't get changed except over the very very long haul. If this were a Romney or somebody we're facing I might be more inclined to say heck ya, let's blow up the election... but the consequences of a Trump administration are incredibly dire. We don't have a choice.
Why pick the unpopular one?
Unpopular with you. Popular with a lot of people. It comes down to who can win the election and since Biden is the only candidate that has won against Trump, that's a good start. You may like to assume that the Dem party just runs with whomever is up next, but while there may be a kernel of truth to that (witness Hillary vs Bernie) it's not how they've won elections (witness Obama).
Shouldn’t Dem primary voters vote for the candidate that will get the most votes in the general?
That's exactly what they are getting. And provably so. If the 18-39 demographic actually turned out to vote in the numbers that the 65+ group did, you can bet we'd be looking at a different candidate. But that's not what has happened, due in no small part to folks such as yourself holding out for the whatever your conception of a preferred candidate is.
Look, I completely agree with you about the candidates on offer. They suck. But if you withhold your vote you are not going to get better candidates... you will get worse because the Dems know you aren't going to vote so they may as well appeal to a demographic that will.
That's why you should vote blue no matter who, but support progressive candidates and protest policies you oppose.
And it also displays an admirably idealistic but not very realistic view of the political system that we are stuck with.
You're still trying to have this conversation about me, and not with me about a demographic that you yourself described as fickle...
What do you think is easier? A candidate that gives that demo attention and they like?
Or getting all of them to stop being who they are?
Because if we try to change them, it's a never ending battle, every year more people turn 18.
If we just run candidates they like, and let them get politically active at a young age. They'll likely become lifelong Dem voters.
And if the party keeps evolving to meet the more and more progressive views of the next generation, republicans will never have a president again.
All it takes is the "moderate" members sacrificing and supporting candidates that will fix problems a little faster than they want, and we'll fix our problems.
Who's being rational here?
You’re still trying to have this conversation about me
I'm sorry if you feel this is aimed at you and is personal. It's not, but we are debating and you are in a sense representing that demographic.
Specifically you display some traits of a demographic that has not yet learned that you at once have enormous power collectively and very little power individually.
For example you display the tendency of that demographic to think that the entire political system should revolve around them and their particular desires. That somehow our political system is zero sum and that everyone believes or should believe exactly as you do and that if you don't get 100% of what you want you have failed. You haven't failed at all! You got some of what you want and others got some of what they want. That's the success of democracy. And, crucially, that's your power.
So when you say, to paraphrase, "if only they just had candidates that are popular" you are really saying "candidates my demographic likes". I'm sorry, that's not how it works for the simple reason that there are other demographics and other cultural and political beliefs. AND... they vote more.
I think we should end it there although you are welcome to have the last word. But I want to say one last thing: We have made enormous progress and having lived that is a key difference between someone younger and someone older like myself. When I was in my teens I was assaulted and beaten for being queer. Another time I escaped being raped and probably murdered only by sheer luck. For the longest time I couldn't legally marry. All because of who I am. Now, as a queer and transgender person, I can literally go to at least a few work places and have them respect my pronouns and gender identity. I don't often fear for my personal safety. I even have our president publicly acknowledging this fact and speaking in support of who I am. And I'm happily married.
This is not everything and there is a lot of work left to do. But HOLY FUCK that is enormous progress in just a few decades.
I’m sorry if you feel this is aimed at you and is personal
You say that, but then
For example you display the tendency of that demographic
There's nothing I can say that can get thru to you. Which I knew when you wouldn't share your age demographic and got "snarky" about it. I gave you a bunch of chances rather than make the obvious assumption.
I guess I'll be "fickle" and have standards about who I associate with.
Trump will accept the results of the 2024 election. Ask me how I know.