I'm voting blue, and you should too
But if it's a competition for engagement, why did we have to go with the least engaging candidate possible?
this post was submitted on 09 Jul 2024
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Because the system isn't fixed yet.
Unfortunately, we have to engage in order to fix it. It won't just fix itself so that we can participate with a clean ~~ego~~ conscience.
So much this. This is a shitty game, but the only way to fix the game, is to play. Keep voting blue to beat the fascist reds, and in primaries, vote with your heart. A strong voter turnout for both will make the red party irrelevant until they move more to the center, while also pushing blue more left.
Okay... But let's walk it out... Say turn out is good enough to beat Trump this time... Biden gets in again... What's the next step? How do we then get him and the Dems to fix the system? Probably not even that hard... Ranked choice, end dark money, end gerrymandering... The rest will likely sort itself out... So what? Do we call our elected reps and say, okay, this time I really mean it, you fix this dumpster fire or else... Else what?
(Just to keep this from getting derailed... I'm voting for Biden and so should everyone, especially in the swing states.)
But I've heard this song before... Over and over... Just vote like you're told to this time, and then we'll fix the system later... And like clockwork we're right back here every 4 years... And god forbid anyone ever point out that we did this exact same dance last time, and we got them in, and shocker of all shockers, they didn't fucking fix anything about the system. Shit, they didn't even try.
So show me the Democrat's plan to fix the system. Or I guess it is already "fixed"... How are they going to unfuck it?
Step one is that people need to show up for more than just presidential elections. The only way to move left at a national level is to show the establishment that progressive candidates are winning in local and state races and it's more than just a couple of them here or there. Get more progressives in the kind of offices that can set them up to be governors and senators - those are the people who generally end up as president. There's no overnight solution, which is what a lot of people seem to expect.
Buuuut voter turnout in non-presidential election years sucks, and it's even worse outside of midterms. I don't know how to solve that part. I've voted in every single election I could since I turned 18, and I don't understand the complete lack of engagement. I know how to solve the things that prevent willing voters from doing it, but I don't know how we fix apathy.
My source? I made it the fuck up
Is this progressive politics or Blue MAGA math?
Don't you have a trump to help elect?
I don't advocate for politicians in favor of Genocide. How about you?
Can't run an anti-genocide candidates. They're unelectable.
Running as anti-genocide is no different than running as pro-Trump
- I have a product that I want to sell.
- You don't like that product.
- I'm at risk of being broke because I don't sell anything.
- It's YOUR FAULT because you don't buy what I sell.
I think that's not the way it works.
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It’s much easier to get 65% turnout when it’s a candidate we can get excited about.
His record is great, and the alternative is the end of democracy.
What more do you want
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Those % are very much bullshit but I support the message. Vote out the fascist party.
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how about this, we get 80% of the country, the disenfranchised non-voters and vote for an actually decent third party and destroy them both
Good. I would also like a pony.
is the Democratic strategy for engagement to respond with cynicism and low bars?
Always has been when it's critical of them
Unlike . . . who
Is that your reasoning for punching left?
No
Excellent rebuttal
You need a thesis statement?
“Unlike . . . who” is not my reason for punching left.
Any other questions?
It's as good at the post so no but wasn't expecting any actual answer
As to why anyone would punch left? Or just, at all?
If the former, it’s because we’re in an existential crisis as a country, and while the right-wing nutjobs are either asleep at the wheel or as batshit or corrupt as expected, the “left” (for our purposes here) are contributing to the right-wing’s efforts, and proudly.
If American democracy - the fate of not just the government but effects around the world - were a kitchen-on-fire, republiQans are cheering, Democrats are running in and out with a bucket of water to put it out, and “the left” as it appears to be defined here, is a petulant jerk at the table yelling “you suck at running!” every time the Democrat passes by.
That’s why. If someone is an American and a registered voter, and they don’t vote Democrat this election, they have no right - none at all - to consider themselves progressive. And no one here (well, no American registered voter, anyway) should need that explained.
Would love if dems fought this hard against the GOP.
Or had actual long terms othet than not being GOP...
I don’t know what counts as “fighting this hard” but dems do fight the GOP all session long. No one else does, with the sometimes exception of, like, Angus King.
Yes they fight so hard.
It's why we got ACA instead of universal Healthcare. Almost got social security cuts, other cuts to social programs and right wings dream immigration bill in the form of an executive order by Biden.
Nice cherries ya picked there.
First of all, no, and second of all if Obama had pushed H4A in 2008 you wouldn't have anything. "Progressives" - or whoever- forget about that and somehow come to the conclusion that, well, since we didn't get the moon and a bag of chips these guys are just as bad as those guys.
So let me ask you if you think anyone is fighting hard in Washington. If no, then fair enough we can agree to disagree. If yes, who?
No one is that's the fucking issue. The most we've gotten is Nancy tearing up a piece of paper
So who just filed articles of impeachment on Alito and Thomas?
Was it someone from the Green party? Perhaps a feisty Independent like Krysten Sinema? Y'know, someone who fights hard?
Hey, 2017-2020 I give you that. The Dems were worthless. But 2020-now I've seen a lot of good things happen. I want more. And the option - there is one option right now - and that option is not good things.
And crazy marge put in impeachment articles for biden. What's your point?
Still waiting on any ethics push from senate.
What do you think they've done to fight since 2020?
After vaccination tiny push they stopped caring about covid. Ignored doing anything to investigate trump. Fucked up where they charged him in the secret document case.
We got what a super watered down IRA bill? Then sanctions on the materials that would be used to help lower carbon emissions.
Oh and still killed immigration by implementing the republican wet dream at the border.
So please tell me the fighting as I'm so fucking tired of our 2 useless right wing parties.
Are you saying you didn’t get everything you wanted so therefore they’re not fighting hard? Are you thinking they’re not saying we want free school lunches, we want to tax the rich, we want to support Ukraine, just - what floating listlessly in space? How does this get done without fighting hard, and who or what needs to be fought?
Oh I know you don’t need another list of accomplishments, so are you saying they got those super easy? Really? No fight needed eh. Right.
Have you ever gotten something approved by 20 people? 350 people? 65 Million people? Any idea how it actually plays out? It plays out that way for many reasons, not least of which is it’s hard to build consensus and easy to destroy it.
I get the dems are not rubber-stamping the gay space communism we so deserve, yes, I have many complaints for them, but calling them right-wing is ridiculous. And if you can’t see your way to not supporting the actual-no-foolin-seriously-this-is-fucked-up fascist party, okay.
Amazing how all your arguments and reasoning boils down to shut up and stop complaining about their shittyness while also trying to say it'll all get better once they're the only party.
Or is it just you don't understand why a progressive space can see how shit the dems are. Better than Republicans but that is such a low bar we want better.
Also you are one of those who think we aren't voting blue because we are critical of the party that says they are better.
Or is it just you don't understand why a progressive space can see how shit the dems are.
Are you suggesting the dems can't see how shit the Dems are?
I would point out - I remember Reagan. Local and national Democratic strategies almost never recovered. They've been shit for decades. You know how long it takes to change minds? Look at us here now- just two people talking. Multiply that by 300 Million.
Walter Mondale was a fine person but a terrible choice for president. we bitched about that to deaf ears. We saw how shit dems were, if you will. And called it out.
Dukakis was a reasonable choice who campaigned like a republican and got trounced because the dems simply refuse to understand how communications work. (That, or, they're a shadow-op run by the dark lizard cabal to keep everyone enslaved. Or possibly somewhere in between.) We saw how shit dems were with that and called it out, also "progressives" were either nowhere to be seen or they were democrats.
Bill Clinton was the first time in over a decade a democratic national politician had any recognized sway since Carter. That was a long goddamned fucking decade, I can tell you. A long decade where dems were shit - and again, we called them out. Clinton did a lot of good things. He also did some terrible things that fit the political tenor of the time and were still terrible, and we called him out for that. More cops, cut down welfare, telecomm act. A lot. Got nowhere. This also happened to be the time when Fox News began destroying public debate. Which really helped. At least we didn't get into a war of choice for some bullshit reason like Oil again. And that was very much an option.
As we saw with Bush II. Who had meetings about invading Iraq before he was inaugurated and what-ho hey lookit that we invaded Iraq for bullshit reasons that everyone called out and stood on streetcorners yelling and honking and - nothing. The "progressives" weren't born then I guess or something, that was just dems who fought it. Our Democratic head of the Senate, Tom Daschle, was roundly pilloried for being as strong as a wet rag. Also got nowhere despite knowing how very much shit the dems were.
Oh by-the-by, your "progressive" ranks (I guess - who knows really) got their third party chance on a national platform. Ross Perot had borked up Bush I's chances in 1992, but here we had Al Gore (democrat) and Ralph Nader (. . . third party? I forget the party name) Anyway. Many intrepid "progressives" voted Nader and Gore lost. Which, to be fair, was his fuckup too. But had everyone voted Gore we wouldn't have had the surveillance state and war on terror we got. But hey - dems are shit, right.
Then Obama. we got somewhere. Not sure how, but getting some progressive ideas on the table made the right-wing absolutely batshit crazy. Fox News went off the fucking rails. Yes it didn't help that Obama was black but they went nuts also because the left was starting to get things done. Did Obama implement the gay space communism we so deserved? No. In fact, we gave him a year or so, and after the republican "T.E.A. Party" cheated back the majorities, he basically took this position of "well, this is what the people want" and we didn't like that at all. Gave him tons of shit for it. Because we knew the dems were being shit again.
Then Hillary. The primaries were pretty gory, and there was a lot of shitting on her as unelectable, as indeed she proved to be. You think that was "progressives" doing that? Who were the progressives in 2015? Hm? Jill Stein? Really? Putin's dinner companion? Michael Flynn's travel bud? That's your answer is it. Pathetic.
Look, you and your eight friends want to ride up and attack the castle with a frontal assault, you can have this extra crossbow but you will get slaughtered. It's just the fact. I can recount the stories of the other slaughtereds if you prefer but I doubt you do. I say again - there is one chance to avoid utter insane bullshit for four years that we or the planet absolutely can not afford. It is not third party, it is not trump. What's left? Pardon the pun.
Why is that? Do dems simply have less voter engagement or is this a split on age lines? Really interesting statistics though!
Gerrymandering, voter ID, challenging voter registrations, disenfranchising felons, opposing mail-in voting, anonymous mailers threatening to arrest voters, closing polling stations in Democratic-leaning areas, challenging voters at the polls to gridlock the polling places, making the handing out of water to people waiting to vote (in red states - where it’s hot) illegal.
All the well-known cheating tactics of republiQans. Others are less well known. That’s one of the problems.
I am a life long Dem and I will not be voting blue my guy.
I've posted that the truly idiotic are on the Right. I am slowly finding myself being corrected on that point.
If someone thinks different from you that doesn't make the other person an idiot, that's idiotic to think that way.
I do agree. However, dumb is dumb.
The Earth is round. Walls are solid. Being Blue and voting against everyone's best interests is stupid.
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