this post was submitted on 12 Apr 2025
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[โ€“] [email protected] 6 points 4 days ago (1 children)

AI is certainly a very handy tool and has helped me out a lot but anybody who thinks "vibe programming" (i.e. programming from ignorance) is a good idea or will save money is woefully misinformed. Hire good programmers, let them use AI if they like, but trust the programmer's judgement over some AI.

That's because you NEED that experience to notice the AI is outputting garbage. Otherwise it looks superficially okay but the code is terrible, or fragile, or not even doing what you asked it properly. e.g. if I asked Gemini to generate a web server with Jetty it might output something correct or an unholy mess of Jetty 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 with annotations and/or programmatic styles, or the correct / incorrect pom dependencies.

[โ€“] [email protected] 2 points 4 days ago

AI is great for learning a language, partly because it's the right combination of useful and stupid.

It's familiar with the language in a way that would take some serious time to attain, but it also hallucinates things that don't exist and its solution to debugging something often ends up being literally just changing variable names or doing the same wrong things in different ways. But seeing what works and what doesn't and catching it when it's spiraling is a pretty good learning experience. You can get a project rolling while you're learning how to implement what you want to do without spending weeks or months wondering how. It's great for filling gaps and giving enough context to start understanding how a language works by sheer immersion, especially if the application of that language comes robust debugging built in.

I've been using it to help me learn and implement GDscript while I'm working on my game and it's been incredibly helpful. Stuff that would have taken weeks of wading through YouTube tutorials and banging my head against complex concepts and math that I just don't have I can instead work my way through in days or even hours.

Gradually I'm getting more and more familiar with how the language works by doing the thing, and when it screws up and doesn't know what it's talking about I can see that in Godot's debugging and in the actual execution of the code in-game. For a solo indie dev who's doing all the art, writing, and music myself, having a tool to help me move my codebase forward while I learn has been pretty great. It also means that I can put systems in place that are relevant to the project so my modding partner who doesn't know GDScript yet has something relevant to look at and learn from by looking through the project's git.

But if I knew nothing about programming? If I wasn't learning enough to fix its mistakes and sometimes abandon it entirely to find solutions to things it can't figure out? I'd be making no progress or completely changing the scope of the game to make it a cookie cutter copy of the tutorials the AI is trained on.

Vibe coding is complete nonsense. You still need a competent designer who's at least in the process of learning the context of the language they're working with or your output is going to be complete garbage. And if you're working in a medium that doesn't have robust built-in debugging? Good luck even identifying what it's doing wrong if you're not familiar with the language yourself. Hell, good luck getting it to make anything complex if you have multiple systems to consider and can't bridge the gaps yourself.

Corpo idiots going all in on "vibe coding" are literally just going to do indies a favor by churning out unworkable garbage that anyone who puts the effort in will be able to easily shine in comparison to.

It's a good teacher, though, and a decent assistant.

[โ€“] [email protected] 16 points 5 days ago (9 children)

it's funny that some people think programming has a human element that can't be replaced but art doesn't.

[โ€“] [email protected] 15 points 5 days ago (5 children)

Art doesn't have to fulfill a practical purpose nor does it usually have security vulnerabilities. Not taking a position on the substance, but these are two major differences between the two.

[โ€“] [email protected] 6 points 5 days ago

my point exactly. practical purpose and security are things you can analyze and solve for as a machine at least in theory. artistic value comes from the artistic intent. by intent I don't mean to argue against death of the author, as I believe in it, but the very fact that there is intent to create art.

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[โ€“] [email protected] 10 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (7 children)

I've always said as a software developer that our longterm job is to program ourselves out of a job. In fact, in the long term EVERYBODY is "cooked" as automation becomes more and more capable. The eventual outcome will be that nobody will have to work. AI in its present state isn't ready at all to replace programmers, but it can be a very helpful assistant.

[โ€“] [email protected] 6 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Management can't blame AI when shit hits the fan, though. We'll be fine. Either that or everything just collapses back into dust, which doesn't sound so bad in the current times.

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[โ€“] [email protected] 19 points 5 days ago (1 children)

We're still far away from Al replacing programmers. Replacing other industries, sure.

Right, it's the others that are cooked.

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[โ€“] [email protected] 5 points 4 days ago (2 children)

The way I see it, there are two types of developers we should take into consideration for this discussion:

  • Software Engineers
  • Code editors

Most "programmers" these days are really just code editors, they know how to search stack overflow for some useful pointers, copy that code and edit it to what they need. That is absolutely fine, this advances programming in so many ways. But the software engineers are the people that actually answer the stack overflow questions with detailed answers. These engineers have a more advanced skillset in problem solving for specific coding frameworks and languages.

When people say: programmers are cooked, I keep thinking that they mean code editors, not software engineers. Which is a similar trend in basically all industries in relation with AI. Yes, AI has the potential to make some jobs in health care obsolete (e.g. radiologist), but that doesn't mean we no longer need surgeons or domain expert doctors. Same thing applies to programming.

So if you are a developer today, ask yourself the following: Do actually know my stuff well, am I an expert? If the answer is no, and you're basically a code editor (which again, is fine), then you should seriously consider what AI means for your job.

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[โ€“] [email protected] 9 points 5 days ago (2 children)

AI also isn't close to replacing other industries. They are both wrong.

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[โ€“] [email protected] 13 points 5 days ago

Thank you for your opinion.

Anyway.

[โ€“] [email protected] 8 points 5 days ago

Definitely bait

[โ€“] [email protected] 3 points 4 days ago (2 children)

The day that AI can program perfectly is the day it can improve the itself perfectly and it's the day that we'll all be fucked.

I personally vote for some sort of direct brain interface (no Elmo, you're not allowed to play) that DOES allow direct recall of queries but does NOT allow ads ffs) that allows us to grow with AI in intelligence. If you can't beat em (we can't), join em.

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[โ€“] [email protected] 5 points 5 days ago

I once asked chatGPT to write a simple RK2 algorithm in python. The function couldve been about 3 lines followed by a return statement. It gave me some convoluted code that was 3 functions and about 20 lines. AI still has some time to go before its can handle writing code on its own. Ive asked copilot/chatGPT several times to write code (just for fun) and it always does this

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