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How many Russian lives did it cost to take, and then lose, that territory?
Its estimated that 325,000 Russians have been killed since February 2022. That's four years. For context, America lost 55,000 soldiers in Vietnam, over about 10 years. Less than 2500 were killed in the Afghanistan War, which lasted 20 years.
With drones, armored vehicles, better equipment, more accurate weapons, better training, body armor, etc., armies should be losing far less soldiers, but Russia apparently doesn't subscribe to that notion.
America was extremely upset over their losses in Vietnam. Eventually even Conservatives turned against it, as they began to lose their own children to the draft. Our country is far larger than Russia, and if we were feeling it so badly, the Russian people must be out of their minds.
At 325,000 dead, literally every Russian must know a victim, or the family of a victim. Every neighborhood, every high school graduating class must have several dead. Russians are people just like us, so think how we would feel if we had lost that many young men in only the last four years.
Putin can't keep this up, at some point the people will have to resist, or he'll kill an entire generation.
Not trying to distract from your argument, but where are you getting that 325K number? Even on the low estimates, the current 2022 war has at least 400K and potentially well over a million in Russian losses according to the (~800 reference) Wiki Article. Most things I've seen estimate around 1.1-1.2M realistically in losses.
Was this just losses for the portion Ukraine just took back? If so, that seems high?
The 1.2 million number is casualties, including wounded. I just read an article that claimed to have a report of the most recent, most accurate numbers. Unfortunately, I can't find that article right now.
For context, Vietnam cost America 58,000 deaths, and 150,000 to 300,000 injuries, depending on definitions. In any case, after all those years in Vietnam, America's price was a fraction of the cost that the Russians are paying in Ukraine.
Fair enough on the casualties vs. deaths. I agree with your message that it's much more of a meat grinder especially how quickly those losses have added up compared to Vietnam.
That's what I'm saying. I remember how freaked out people were about Vietnam, when I was a kid. Russian families have got to be out of their minds. Every day, people probably go to work to hear about how a co-worker's son or husband has been killed or injured.
There's got to be a lot going on over there that we're not hearing about. I highly doubt those people are taking this quietly.
You act like he’s not ok with killing an entire generation. Nobody throws soldiers into a meat grinder if they cared about life costs.
Oh, I know he's okay with it, but those soldier's families aren't okay with it, I can guarantee you that. I doubt any of them think it's worth it to trade their son's or husband's life for...Ukraine? How does that improve the life of the average Russian?
Its an authoritarian regime. In reality nobody has the right to choose its the government that chooses for you
The Russians have always been wasteful of their soldiers lives. In WW2, they had something like 95% of the Allied casualties. They also got slaughtered by the Afghanis when they refused to follow Vizzini's advice of avoiding land wars in Asia.
They are supposed to get a bucket of cash
Oh, well, I'm sure that's fine.
Part of the reason Putin has been able to do this for so long is that this isn't the case. Moscow and St Petersburg have largely shielded from the loss of their populations through drafts. Putin has drawn significantly from the rest of Russia instead, especially those in impoverished regions.
Yeah, they did a lot of that in Vietnam, too, which is why there was a much higher percentage of minorities serving. Grab someone up for weed, and give them the choice of 10 years in jail, or 2 years in Vietnam. And the wealthy could always keep their kids out of the draft. That's what campaign donations are for.
With losses this high, Puton won't be able to keep going back to the same wells for long, and other countries won't be willing to send mercenaries for his meat grinder.
Eventually, he will have to go to the cities for soldiers.
I think its already hit this point. Reports of recruitment from Russia has fallen dramatically in the last couple of months with a net loss of troops Russia is fielding considering the losses every month.
This is still ongoing, less so that countries are intentionally committing troops, but more from scams where nationals from abroad are tricked into coming to Russia being told they will be doing regular jobs, and only then finding out they are being assigned to Russian frontline combat units for the meat waves. The most recent high profile version of this was the adult daughter of a prominent South African politician scamming South African men to going to Russia. Some of these men lived as POWs capture by Ukraine.