this post was submitted on 01 Feb 2026
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But never announce it on social media. The purists will fight you.
Vegans have the worst PR department ever
I’ve never encountered a group I mostly agree with that I want to avoid more
I've been a strict Vegan for over a decade now and even i tend to stay away from the crowd. It's a bit better offline, but depends on how much any person needs to boost their ego by signaling moral pureness.
I'm a bacontarian like in the image, but I love sharing recipes with all folks. This works even for the hardcore vegans.
Baconarian?
The word you are looking for is Murderer, obviously 😉
But honestly, cutting out animal products helps animals, so thanks for that. Should it be all animal products? I'd say yes and live accordingly, but i can accept that other people arrive at other points.
no, it doesn't.
this is stated without any supporting evidence, and can be dismissed without any evidence.
oh, here you go
Cool, a graph showing that Chinas wealth has increased since the 60s.
Wanna try again?
make any excuse you want: being vegan hasn't stopped any animal from being killed
I have friends that have saved several wild dogs and cats while on holiday, because of the compassion they developed for animals since becoming Vegans.
So your totalitarian claim is wrong right away.
If you look at Europe, eating less meat seems to impact the industry.
The AGI is hardly an activist organisation, so i'd wager that they are not biased here.
Since eating habits in many countries that are slowly closing the gap to western countries are changing from vegetarian to more meat, the global data is obscured a lot.
But the logic of vegetarians and vegans not buying meat and an ever rising number of plant based alternatives consumed even by people, who are only looking for a reduction in meat consumption, seems clear to me.
none of this changes the fact that more meat is produced every year.
just eating beans doesn't help animals. you need to go to where the animals are and help them
And yes, I know. I try to only eat suicidal animals, because I'm a good human!
My initial goal with switching more and more things to vegan was to reduce my ecological footprint.
For the animal products I still consume, I try to buy the fairest and highest quality available. If I'm responsible for their end, the life they had should at least be somewhat pleasant. But I guess they would prefer not to be eaten at all.
I'm in the exact same boat - I'm grateful that the person who introduced me to it never forced it on me, they obviously would cook vegan meals for both of us when I'd visit his house but that was pretty much the only exposure they gave me.
When I started looking more into it and taking it on, they were obviously very supportive and I intend to do just that in my own life - people know I'm vegan eventually just from seeing the meals I eat and eventually asking, but I don't mention it otherwise.
I think this can be said about a lot of the groups focused on some ethical viewpoint. They come out with a lot of rage, which might be justified for their viewpoint but does more to generate opposition than support. One of those "you might be right but you're still an asshole" situations even for those who agree with them, but the type that provokes "you don't like that I do this, eh? Well I'm going to do it even more because I don't like you and I want to upset you" kind of responses in those who don't agree.
The purists will hate you, and those that hate the purists will also hate you.
I'm a purist but I appreciate everyone doing their best. Everyone has different challenges and priorities and in the end a bacontarian is much better than eating meat all the time, according to me at least.
For me, I'd love to see the monoculture farms go away. Reduced meat eating would go a long way to that end.
It doesn't require completely abstaining but even a 10% reduction in the need for feed and other processed items would free up land that could be used in more sustainable ways.
To that end, I'm also a fan of alternative farming methods such as vertical farms and promoting even small balcony boxes that may only produce pretty flowers or herbs.
Every variety of greenery in as many places as possible would combat the poison we've pumped into the world over the past few centuries.
You are accepting that others aren't and thus okay with harm reduction stances ("lesser evil is better than greater evil"), so you are not a moral purist at least, if that makes any sense. For a true moral purist evil is unacceptable so they will refuse making that choice, even if that leads to a worse outcome
Veganism is by it's very definition harm reduction. There's a large difference between "cannot eat less meat" and "don't want to eat less meat". The first is technically even vegan, the second will never be.
Applying strict moral purism to veganism means leaving most of harm reduction out, though, it's the paradox that happens when moral purism meets lesser-evilism. If the options are getting lots of people to eat less meat by understanding changing cultural norms takes a lot of time and will happen slowly and thus encouraging them to take at least smaller steps towards leaving animal products out (more animals saved = lesser evil), or demanding everyone immediately stops eating meat and becomes vegan, which fails to consider people grown in a meat eating culture will fight aggressively against sudden changes and thus makes people less likely to listen and reduce their meat consumption (more animals eaten = greater evil), a moral purist vegan will choose the latter or do neither (leading to animals still being eaten more than with the first option - so not a harm reduction stance).
As moral purists views it is completely unacceptable to eat animals, encouraging people to eat just a little animals is not an option. If you can accept the lesser evil, you are not a moral purist, and if you don't accept the lesser evil then you're choosing against harm reduction
vegans as well as linux users are nowhere near as outspoken and petty as they are made out to be. personally i find jokes about that insufferable and ubiquitous. The ratio of jokes about this to actually people like this existing is like 100:1. my theory is, They get so much shit because them just existing reminds people of their own shortcommings, instead of applauding people doing the effort to pioneer a better world these people decide to make a snarky remark and continue being lazy and annoying with these jokes.
I know quite a few vegans in my life who are amazing, nonjudgmental people. On Lemmy, I've been called a "murderer" and a "carnist" for mentioning I'm reducing my meat consumption.
Yup. I posted the canadian food "plate" in one of the vegan communties as a sanier counterexample to the new US inverted meat pyramid. Canada fought its Ag industry tooth and nail to publish it. The pretty reasonable "protein" section is largly beans, nuts, fish and then red meat, in a way that mirrors actual health recommendations instead of industry demands.
I specifically called it a better version that recommended eating less meat. Immediatly hit with "all meat is murder" and had my comment deleted within the hour.
It doesnt change my personal views on veganism, but it did tell me not to interact with the community here, which is unfortunate. Id like to get more input and perspectives, and hell even recipe recommendations, but nah.
Lemmy has plenty of mentally unwell people, who feel identifying strongly with some or another cause gives their life meaning.
Doesn’t carnist just mean someone who eats meat?
no. it's a term made up by vegans to describe people who don't have their ideology. just like how Christians talk about sinners
Yeah, most terms are made up. In this case the alternative is “non-vegan non-vegetarian” so I think making up a shorter term is worthwhile lol
What was wrong with "omnivore"?
all terms are made up. this one in particular was made up by vegans to identify non-believers.
It does. It's just a word for people who follow the belief that it's normal, natural, and necessary to consume animals.
Since those people are the invisible majority, it's often taken as an insult to have their 'normal' status get a label. Veganism is the belief that we shouldn't exploit and harm animals, carnism is the belief that we should.
Which is hilarious in hindsight, because the reverse happens in other topics. Call someone in other circles 'normal' and they'll throw 15 label names at you for why they're not normal.
Carnism would still technically cover "vegan plus (animal-based) bacon". That's kinda like saying you're an atheist but believe in (insert god here).
And this all-or-nothing approach is precisely what I'm referring to. I consider myself pretty well-read, and the only time I've ever seen the word "carnist" used in the wild is when someone who's vegan is hurling it as an insult
It's not all or nothing, it's definitional! Why even have words describing concepts if everyone makes up their own version just to get mad at it.
Veganism is based on anti-speciesism, the philosophical belief that discrimination based solely (SOLELY) on species is immoral. It makes perfect sense, then, to find a word that describes the opposite stance. Carnism is that word.
This is, quite frankly, just as ridiculous as TERFs getting pissed at being called "cis". Or "TERF", for that matter. It's entirely reasonable that someone might not like people holding opposing philosophical views (TERFs, carnists), but that does NOT make those words insults in and of themselves.
All this is ENTIRELY divorced from whether reducing meat consumption is good (it is!).
"I'm reducing my meat consumption by doing (x)."
"Fuck off, carnist!"
It really isn't being used that way when the intention is flagrantly insultive.
I speak from personal experience. I once tried talking about reducing meat consumption and got attacked. Never again.
I'd just like to interject for a moment. What you're refering to as Vegan, is in fact, bacon/Vegan, or as I've recently taken to calling it, bacon plus Vegan. Vegan is not an diet unto itself, but rather another component of a fully functioning diet system made useful by the bacon, grease and vitals destroying components comprising a full obesity as defined by WHO.