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If I were in his shoes, I'd be really fucking reluctant to give any order that would result in a bloodbath. I mean, we can all guess by now that it will end up that way, but I don't think we should be so quick to condemn a man that doesn't lightly order violence.
Pressure him into taking action, because that pressure may ease the weight of responsibility, but understand that it's a heavy weight to bear. Pretty sure he didn't go into that job expecting to face a civil war.
Yeah, that's kind of how democracy works. There should be direct and obvious connection between actions that drastic and the will of the people. Starting a war with the government isn't something that a governor should be able to just do with one order.
Exactly. That such a decision requires public pressure is, for once, a system working as it should. The question is which pressure he'll give in to: The feds' demands or his people's.
What's with this apologism for feckless liberals? He doesn't have to order the National Guard to open fire on ICE, but he could start with, you know, not sending state police to brutalize protestors at the site of the most recent public execution.
I don't give a fuck if he feels a heavy weight, it's nothing compared to the families of the dead. Dead because of an institution his party funded just as often as the Republicans did. It's time for him to rise to the occasion or (infinitely more likely) time for us to recognize there's no spine in his body and it depends entirely on us - which means he's against us.
It wasn't intended to absolve him from the responsibility of having to do something, if that's how it came across. In the context of people calling on him to mobilise the NG and use them to drive out ICE, I wanted to point out that it would be akin to starting open civil war, and that any responsible commander would and should grapple with that decision. It's not about excusing so much as understanding.
I didn't know that at the time I made the comment. Like I said, I was mostly seeing people call for military action left and right.
And if he orders the NG to deploy against ICE, there will be even more dead and more grieving families as a result of his orders. I think you're a little too quick to dismiss the weight of that decision. Yes, people will die if he does nothing as well, which is why he has to do something. I'm not excusing his inaction.
In an escalating time of violence and rage, I'm trying to remind people of their humanity: Pressure him to do his job, by all means, but do so in full awareness what you're asking of him.
I think the most acceptable course of action at this point would be having the NG shadow ICE everywhere they go, with instructions to protect the safety and civil rights of the protestors and other humans (regardless of citizenship status).
Then the ball is in ICE's court. Let them be the ones who escalate.
But yes, Tim Walz's approach so far has been to sic his state police on the protestors and send the NG out for donut-and-coffee photo ops while doing nothing to meaningfully protect the citizens. I won't give him a pass on that, it's the job he signed up for and got paid our tax dollars to do.
And you shouldn't give him a pass either. Let's hope his heart is in the right place and his courage will catch up.
Well put.
so far he has not even made words of criticizing or threatening them, its all empty words, super-non confrontational.
He absolutely should do something effective, agreed. He's made Holocaust comparisons, if I caught that right, and "blasted" the federal government, but right now it appears to be mostly rhetorical posturing (which is still important preparation for any non-rhetorical face-off, but isn't yet enough to effectively stop them).
I understand that it's a delicate situation to be placed in, because confrontation may prompt the deranged terrorists into targeting him, which would most likely escalate into civil conflict of some scale. If that happened, he'd want all ducks lined up and ready to make that conflict as quick and decisive as possible so the rest of their force doesn't have a foothold and hopefully decides to write off the incident rather than continuing to escalate.
He's in too critical a position to just do nothing out of fear, but he's also a civil administrator with military training handling what's liable to become a military affair with civilians in the crossfire. It's a fucking powder keg and he doesn't want to blow it up if he can avoid it, whether for his own sake or for that of his people.
Still, like I said, keep pressuring him. His people need to show "we're willing to fight these terrorists, whether with or without you." If he's hesitant to inflict this on his people, it eases the weight of the decision. If he's hesitant for his own sake, it risks making him the enemy. Better to pressure him into an organised response than to wait for an uncontrolled one.
Me saying "I understand why he's holding back so far" doesn't mean "He should keep doing that". It's an appeal to remember the human that's being faced with a terrible choice, so that efforts to pressure him may do so in a conscious, focused manner.
But he must be pressured.