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Valve Addresses Steam Machine Anti-Cheat Concerns, Says It's Working Towards Support (thisweekinvideogames.com)
submitted 5 days ago by ampersandrew@lemmy.world to c/games@lemmy.world
130 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 

An article from this weekend that seemingly got buried by soundbites about the Steam Machine price in the same interview, but given that we have no information on price, this seems way more interesting to me. I mean...I basically self-select games that don't use these kinds of anti-cheat at all, but this is important information for a lot of people, especially if you're looking for an off-ramp from Windows and still want to play some of the most popular live service titles.

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[–] ampersandrew@lemmy.world -1 points 4 days ago (1 children)

So the only thing that’s allowed to be speculated is that the companies are perfectly honest and never lie? Yeah, maybe you’re not that reasonable.

A bit of skepticism is healthy, but it's far more reasonable to assume that independently reporting the same thing from multiple different unaffiliated companies is the truth compared to making up stories about executive meddling or that banning Linux increases the percentage of hackers, based on nothing except your own feelings.

I daily drive Kubuntu. I hate Windows. I have a Windows partition, but I haven't booted it since December of last year. My next PC won't have Windows at all. The operating system I use doesn't change what is actually happening in the real world.

If they can’t stop the hacking on Windows then what the hell is blocking Linux going to do?

It's going to prevent a more potent vector, which is exactly what they said.

[–] Cethin@lemmy.zip 1 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Their story doesn't make sense. The one thing they always say is how few users are on Linux. If that's true then most of the hackers can't be. It doesn't make sense. It does nothing to actually solve the issue. An actual fix wouldn't matter what OS someone is on.

If you use Linux, and game on it, then why are you saying things are going the way of not supporting it. Clearly you must see what way the wind is blowing. Damn near everything works fine. It's only EA, Riot, Chinese games, and a tiny number of other games. Everything else usually just works.

It's going to prevent a more potent vector, which is exactly what they said.

It prevents exactly zero vectors on Windows, which is where the problem is.

[–] ampersandrew@lemmy.world 0 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (1 children)

Anti-cheat is not heading toward more support without the intervention described in the article. Whatever that results in. Valve is talking about potentially a SteamOS-specific fix, which I take to mean that they might have to do something at a kernel level that other Linux distros would find unacceptable. "Only" EA, Riot, Epic, Roblox, and Call of Duty is grossly underselling this: that is most of the video game market. It's not most games, nor is it most publishers, but between those games and publishers, it represents most players, most dollars spent, and most time spent playing video games (at least non-mobile, anyway). It is an enormous hump to get over if you want to make a gaming device appealing to more customers.

The one thing they always say is how few users are on Linux. If that’s true then most of the hackers can’t be. It doesn’t make sense.

Sure it does. As an example, let's say there are X players for a game in a month, and 3-7% of those are on Linux. If, as Facepunch says, more than half of that 3-7% are cheaters, then including them is doing more harm than good to your cheating problem.

[–] Cethin@lemmy.zip 1 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Anti-cheat is not heading toward more support without the intervention described in the article.

I don't know how many times I have to say this, but one more time: The vast majority of games work on Linux just fine! That number is only increasing.

Whatever that results in. Valve is talking about potentially a SteamOS-specific fix

Source? You say I need to provide sources. Where's yours for this. This isn't how Linux works. You can add and remove kernal modules at run time on Linux. This will not be OS specific, and it also won't realistically address any actual issues that may exist and aren't already solved.

It's not most games, nor is it most publishers, but between those games and publishers, it represents most players, most dollars spent, and most time spent playing video games (at least non-mobile, anyway). It is an enormous hump to get over if you want to make a gaming device appealing to more customers.

It is not, on PC at least. The most played PC game is CS, and second is Minecraft, according to this. I'm not saying it's nothing, but also it's far from everything. The vast majority of hours played by people are on games that work on Linux.

Sure it does. As an example, let's say there are X players for a game in a month, and 3-7% of those are on Linux. If, as Facepunch says, more than half of that 3-7% are cheaters, then including them is doing more harm than good to your cheating problem.

This number is bullshit probably. If their AC can detect cheaters then they wouldn't have this issue in the first place. You're trying to tell me you believe they can accurately count cheaters but are also incapable of stopping them? Yeah...

[–] ampersandrew@lemmy.world 1 points 3 days ago

Source? You say I need to provide sources. Where’s yours for this.

It's in the article that we're commenting on right now.

“I think some of that work, by nature, because it’s so close to the platform, will have to be SteamOS specific… some publishers or some game developers will have to decide at their own rhythm if they want to do that work for SteamOS or not. But we’ve been trying to help in any way we can along the way.”

I don't know how this works with Linux software licenses, but it seems to be something that they're acknowledging they might have to do, somehow.

It is not, on PC at least.

You're right, I've got some double-counting going on in there. According to Mat Piscatella of Circana, 40-50% of all gaming hours on PS5/XS are spent on just the top 10 live service titles. Surely a target demo for the Steam Machine includes a portion of that, but these games really do represent a huge portion of the market, including on PC. You only need one of those games to be a deal-breaker for someone to make them decide that it's not worth it to use a Steam Machine or switch to Linux. For instance, I've got friends that play primarily games that work on Linux, but if Destiny 2 doesn't work, then they're out, full stop. For another friend, it might be Battlefield, or what have you.

This number is bullshit probably. If their AC can detect cheaters then they wouldn’t have this issue in the first place. You’re trying to tell me you believe they can accurately count cheaters but are also incapable of stopping them? Yeah…

I don't know Facepunch's methodology, or that of their anti-cheat vendor, but often times they like to do bans in waves so as to not give away how the cheaters were caught. Again, given that they're not the only developer to come to this conclusion, I have no reason to doubt their write-up. I can certainly disagree with how they've responded to it though. If it were me, I'd sooner put Linux users on a prisoners' island or something than to outright just not let them play.