this post was submitted on 03 Jul 2025
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Not sure if I'm technically Christian anymore, but for the sake of the discussion let's just pretend that I am. I still believe in a soul and a god in any case. I've been reading about determinism, and it really disturbs me. The idea that everything we do is determined solely by a chain of external factors that have happened to us, and we have no hypothetical ability to make any other choice than the one we do.

I see mostly pysicalist atheists argueing for this, but I fail to see how it changes much even if God is in the picture. This means that feeling proud of people, feeling disappointed in people, choosing to be better or to stagnate, being encouraged by people with good hearts or discouraged by people who 'choose' to do evil, and most importantly moral culpability.....it's all an illusion. A practically useful one in our day to day, but an illusion. Courage, justice, choice, compassion, creativity, freedom, all of these concepts that make us human are paper-thin under this framework. We are incapable of choosing our own paths, and we always have been. We were never capable of making different choices. Autonomy isn't real.

Now I don't want this to be true. I want there to be, ultimately, some cohesive self that is capable of making free (not uninfluenced, but free) decisions of whether or not we act in ways that are good or evil, by some complex and unknowable system. But even with the existence of God and a soul taken into account, I can't understand how that could be. Physics or the existence of the spiritual aside, it just becomes a logic problem at a certain point. Either everything we do has a reason, which ultimately has to be external, or the things we do are entirely random.

Which feels pretty bleak. No one can claim ownership of any of their 'decisions,' good or evil. No one can claim they chose to rise above themselves and no one can claim anyone else could have chosen differently when they do something wrong. There is no such thing as responsibility. Who we are is entirely governed by chance. 'Humanity' is mechanical. Does it have to be this way, even under the Christian view? Am I thinking in too severe black and white?

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[–] hendrik@palaver.p3x.de 0 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

@teknevra@lemmy.ca Would you please be so kind and attribute your posts correctly? Other people here do it as well, and I think it's disingenuous to not do it. One line "cross-posted from ..." or "by ... on r/..." attached to each post will do.