this post was submitted on 19 May 2025
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Obviously, given that the mod seems to be just Asterion, it's not a real concern. But if they were leaving women as they are (scantily clad, revealing outfits, etc) and de-sexualizing I'd be more concerned about why they feel it's okay to objectify women and not men.
But it seems like it's a moot point, anyway.
That's what I suspected you meant. I agree that it is (partially) irrelevant to the topic of this post, but still I think its interesting enough that I want to engage with it if you don't mind.
Sexualization is not intrinsically objectification. It can be but you'd have to make an assumption about their motivations for installing such a mod that I think is unrealistic in that case.
Further, keeping character's you find attractive sexy and de-sexing characters who you (think you) find unnattractive on your own local private play through seems like something a person would do for the sake of enhancing a private fantasy. It'd be that they are treating the game as at least partly an erotic experience would be my assumption that would be damaged for them if the sexualization of certain character hurts that experience for them.
Of course I should reiterate that I've not played the game. So I might be missing some context. I have played Skyrim loaded with, ah-hem... certain mods. And I know why I installed those, and it wasn't because I wanted to embrace objectification.
I mean, if we're taking the example of flattening an ass on men and leaving round, partially exposed asses on women, I think we're going beyond objectifying people. The game let's you run around naked with genitals on display. If someone wants to have that kind of play experience, they can do it without mods. So if they feel the need to desexualize men and leave women in sexual roles, it tells me something about how they see women.
I'm not asking you to come to the same conclusion. You're free to feel however you want.
It tells you how they see people they're attracted to. Which happens to be women. (and maybe men but they're denying that potentiality to themselves possibly)
I find both men and women physically attractive, but I do not find all men and women physically attractive. If I installed a mod that de-sexualized certain people but not by gender, would that mean I'm objectifying the people I find attractive?
Culture obviously plays a role here in making men see women as merely potential sexual play things. Even when I thought I was straight I never understood this on a personal level, because a major factor in finding someone sexy for me is precisely that they are not an object.
I told you don't need to agree with me. Can we leave it at that? Or do you think it's your job to change my mind?
I'm not trying to change your mind I'm earnestly curious about how you think. My question was good faith. I promise.
If it theoretically ended up changing your mind or making you dig your heels in, so be it in either case. That's not what I want to achieve here in asking you about your perception.
I also earnestly just enjoy discourse.
If you don't want to answer though, that's fine. I'll leave you be.
If you're interested in discourse, read what I already wrote. I said "I'd be more worried about misogyny" not that it would in fact make a person misogynistic. Is is a problem to acknowledge that some people who would engage in that kind of behavior might be misogynistic in your mind?
I'm terribly sorry but I'm confused by what the meaningful difference is? I feel like you were trying to communicate something very specific here and I'm missing it.
No, its not a problem exactly. Its a reasonable possibility and it makes sense to be concerned about. A lot of men are dumb chuds, and women-hatred goes along with that. However, I don't think its realistic as a base assumption that its a larger possibility over homophobia for it to be your primary concern. Admittedly, this is more based on my own experiences though and trying to put myself in the shoes of someone who'd care to install something like that.
Like, I know I clearly had internalized homophobia when I thought I was straight. And I was exposed to a lot more homophobia from my male peers than misogyny growing up. I saw and heard both, but one was WAY more intense and it was the homophobia.
That is to say, I'd bet the reason a person would do this is because of insecurity over potentially being gay/bi far more than because they are that obsessed with "putting women in their place" in their private video game time, other than on the basis of using the game as porn/erotica if they have some kind of kink and for whatever reason like using video games for that purpose rather than just regular purpose made porn/erotica.
The sort of guy who's primary reason for wanting to flatten men's asses in a video game would be because they view women as subhuman or something would make them unhinged and a rare breed of incel. While it being because they're insecure about their sexuality seems just... more likely to me.
To be "more worried" implies I'd be on the lookout for, not making accusations using only the mod as proof. It raises my hackles.
And I'm not saying that homophobia, internalized or not, shouldn't be considered. Homophobia and misogyny go hand-in-hand quite often. My point was merely that I'd be looking for misogyny first. because someone who wants women's bodies to be exposed but wants or allows men to be more covered up clearly values the two groups differently.
As you say, there are other reasons to engage in such behavior. But a) I'm probably going to be reasonably skeptical of those reasons and b) even if they have those reasons, it doesn't make them not a misogynist.
FWIW I'm gay and nonbinary. I get where concern for homophobia is coming from. It's just not my first thought in the specific scenario we're discussing.
Yeah I know you aren't saying that. In the same way that I'd still consider sexism/mysogyny as a possibility of being their primary reason. Its just not my first thought based on my experiences and intuition.
Yeah I understand that is your stance, what I don't understand is why you'd suspect that over homophobia. That's what I'm legitimately curious about.
Like, is it the same as me, in that its based on your personal experiences and knowledge of your own internal knowledge of your mind when you were younger? Is it more of some kind of logical/rational analysis? or statistical fact? Is it intuition? Ideological frameworks?
I just don't understand why this is your thinking and I'd like to know. I'm not saying you are wrong, my own beliefs aren't on like, rock solid critical thinking or facts or whatever. Its personal experience.
Call it intuition if you need to label it. But having spent most of my life passing as a man, and flying under the radar sometimes (in that people didn't immediately know that I was gay), I just heard a lot more misogyny than homophobia. That's probably just the guys that I know. But it has influenced me.
In my experience, men don't sexualize women to appreciate their beauty, but to demean them. It makes them feel powerful.