this post was submitted on 28 Apr 2025
920 points (91.5% liked)
Comic Strips
24693 readers
1874 users here now
Comic Strips is a community for those who love comic stories.
Rules
-
😇 Be Nice!
- Treat others with respect and dignity. Friendly banter is okay, as long as it is mutual; keyword: friendly.
-
🏘️ Community Standards
- Comics should be a full story, from start to finish, in one post.
- Posts should be safe and enjoyable by the majority of community members, both here on lemmy.world and other instances.
- Any comic that would qualify as raunchy, lewd, or otherwise draw unwanted attention by nosy coworkers, spouses, or family members should be tagged as NSFW.
- Moderators have final say on what and what does not qualify as appropriate. Use common sense, and if need be, err on the side of caution.
-
🧬 Keep it Real
- Comics should be made and posted by real human beans, not by automated means like bots or AI. This is not the community for that sort of thing.
-
📽️ Credit Where Credit is Due
- Comics should include the original attribution to the artist(s) involved, and be unmodified. Bonus points if you include a link back to their website. When in doubt, use a reverse image search to try to find the original version. Repeat offenders will have their posts removed, be temporarily banned from posting, or if all else fails, be permanently banned from posting.
- Attributions include, but are not limited to, watermarks, links, or other text or imagery that artists add to their comics to use for identification purposes. If you find a comic without any such markings, it would be a good idea to see if you can find an original version. If one cannot be found, say so and ask the community for help!
-
📋 Post Formatting
- Post an image, gallery, or link to a specific comic hosted on another site; e.g., the author's website.
- Meta posts about the community should be tagged with [Meta] either at the beginning or the end of the post title.
- When linking to a comic hosted on another site, ensure the link is to the comic itself and not just to the website; e.g.,
✅ Correct: https://xkcd.com/386/
❌ Incorrect: https://xkcd.com/
-
📬 Post Frequency/SPAM
- Each user (regardless of instance) may post up to five (5 🖐) comics a day. This can be any combination of personal comics you have written yourself, or other author's comics. Any comics exceeding five (5 🖐) will be removed.
-
🏴☠️ Internationalization (i18n)
- Non-English posts are welcome. Please tag the post title with the original language, and include an English translation in the body of the post; e.g.,
Sí, por favor [Spanish/Español]
- Non-English posts are welcome. Please tag the post title with the original language, and include an English translation in the body of the post; e.g.,
-
🍿 Moderation
- We are human, just like most everybody else on Lemmy. If you feel a moderation decision was made in error, you are welcome to reach out to anybody on the moderation team for clarification. Keep in mind that moderation decisions may be final.
- When reporting posts and/or comments, quote which rule is being broken, and why you feel it broke the rules.
Banned Artists
The following artists are banned from the community.
- Jago
- Stonetoss
- GPrime85
It should be noted that when you make reports, it is your responsibility to provide rational reasoning why something should be removed. Saying it simply breaks community rules is not always good enough.
Web Accessibility
Note: This is not a rule, but a helpful suggestion.
When posting images, you should strive to add alt-text for screen readers to use to describe the image you're posting:
Another helpful thing to do is to provide a transcription of the text in your images, as well as brief descriptions of what's going on. (example)
Web of Links
- !linuxmemes@lemmy.world: "I use Arch btw"
- !memes@lemmy.world: memes (you don't say!)
Other Comic Communities of Interest
- !bloomcounty@sopuli.xyz
- !calvinandhobbes@lemmy.world
- !cyanideandhappiness@discuss.online
- !exo@discuss.online
- !foxtrot@slrpnk.net
- !garfield@lemmy.world
- !moomin@sopuli.xyz
- !oglaf@discuss.online (NSFW)
- !outland@slrpnk.net
- !pbf@discuss.online
- !peanuts@discuss.online
- !smbc@discuss.online
- !theboondocks@slrpnk.net
- !thefarside@sh.itjust.works
- !xkcd@lemmy.world
- !NoseEars@lemy.lol
founded 3 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
The super hero genre is an individualist power fantasy. It's about giving power to individuals, whereas in real life power rests in groups and systems. That includes the power to effect social change.
It's an escapist response to living in an impossibly complicated world where we want to do good, but we feel powerless and unable to.
The story of a character organizing a series of protests wouldn't really benefit from that character having super powers. Using super powers (physical force) to push political beliefs is terrorism.
So the constraints of the genre mean that social messages have to exist alongside the A-plot power struggle. And they frequently do.
Black Panther is about abandoning isolationism and using a government's power and wealth to help people.
The Avengers have an unmissable theme of not supporting the military-industrial complex. Same with Iron Man.
Common Marvel villains include fascists, bigots, businessmen, and corrupt law enforcement, in addition to the madmen and evil gods.
I've seen this point made a few times, and it just reeks of someone backfilling a reason to hate something popular without actually spending a moment to, you know, watch that thing.
Yep, it's also worth noting that the Avengers organisation is infiltrated, and the actual superheroes end up fighting against the organisation they started.
Spider Man in particular is often at odds with the authorities.
And that's not even mentioning the new season of Daredevil, which could not under any circumstances be described as "pro-cop".
It can still end up as a conservative power fantasy. Kevin Sorbo invaded Space Iraq to stop space weapons of mass destruction while being hated by the government he tried to build.
What super hero film was that?
It was Andromeda, a TV show.
Is that why I thought it was so shit? I was somewhat tempted to rewatch and see if it was any better than when I watched it on broadcast TV and episodes seemed out of order.
"I'm a Virgo" touches on some of that, including having a character with a power related to rousing speeches who organizes community action.
In real life, power lies in the hands of the Mafia.
I think it's billionaires.
You were going strong but this is just inaccurate unless you want to define all use of force, regardless of justification, as terrorism.
Physical force in this case means violence. Unless you expect them to only use their powers to do things like save kittens from trees, but I don't think that addresses the original point.
So how is that inaccurate?
Yeah. You'd think that terrorism would at least require... terror? The supervillains in superhero movies do make people feel scared (though apparently not scared enough to actually move out of NYC despite it being destroyed on a regular basis). But, the heroes don't make them scared at all. The superheroes make them feel safer.
So you judge the movies without seeing them and you respond to my comment without reading it?
This is what my comment was about. You can't make social change with super powers. Super powers are a tool of physical force. I'm sure someone could write a great story about a super hero leading a violent and justified revolution, but you can't possibly expect that to be a hallmark of the genre.
That's categorically false.
First of all, most of the villains don't have sympathetic goals. You want them to address the underlying issue with Red Skull trying to spread fascism? Do you have a problem with them maintaining the status quo against Loki trying to conquer the Earth?
Second of all, they do address it when applicable.
Both Black Panther movies are about reconciling the antagonist's viewpoints.
In Age of Ultron, Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver believe that the Avengers are a tool of western imperialism. When the Avengers are willing to sacrifice themselves to save Sokovia, Scarlet Witch joins the team.
Helmut Zemo has a similar perspective. They never reconcile that, but he succeeds in destroying the Avengers. The moral ambiguity is part of the point.
They are constantly addressing the things you're bringing up. Like I honestly don't think you paid attention to any of these movies, because you seem to have missed some very obvious themes running through the entire MCU.
Tony Stark's whole character arc in the first movie is about reforming his life to make the world a better place. He stops the homicidal villain with his Iron Man armor, and then he effects actual change as a civilian, because that's how actual change works.
Did you miss Falcon and the Winter Soldier, where Captain America gives a big speech saying exactly what you are saying, that they need to do more to address the problems that created the villains? Or the entire arc of that character, where he realizes he's worthy of taking up the mantle not because of any super special awesome powers, but because of his desire to use the platform to improve society?
One of the marvel movies has a line about how Stark Industries is now the world leader in clean energy thanks to his arc reactor, that would have a massive societal impact and upend existing power structures, but it'd also make for a pretty boring film.
While there would be some people who'd watch RDJ sit in meetings for 2 hours making agreements, it wouldn't be the same amount that'd watch him put on the suit and punch people into orbit.
Edit: Actually, on the other hand in Secret Invasion
spoiler
the US president has the UK prime minster assassinated on live televisionThe problem is.... We're handing over our sovereignty to them !!!
I agree they do a good job of making the villains sympathetic, but their goals aren't. We can appreciate the complexity of Loki's relationships with Thor and Odin, but that doesn't qualify for your criticism of wanting the heroes to "address the underlying issue".
Same goes for Thanos. His righteousness is what motivates him, but that doesn't make him any less insane. There's no reasoning with the Mad Titan (except in that one What If..? episode).
He literally does the same thing at the end of Avengers. And in the meantime he redirects all the wealth of his giant corporation away from making weapons and towards things that benefit the world, like clean energy.
Did he.. personally supercede the governments of the world and force them to change their policy on refugees? Dude. He is a man in a wingsuit. He doesn't have that ability.
That's why this whole argument is bunk. The complaint boils down to: "Why didn't these characters drop everything they're doing and start a violent revolution instead of dealing with the problems that are right in front of them?"
That complaint has no merit, because it can be applied to almost every film ever. Why didn't Andy Dufresne start a riot and force prison reform? Why didn't Simba implement a social welfare program for the hyenas who helped murder his father? Why are all these high school students going to high school instead of starting a revolution?
These are silly questions when you apply them to other movies. They're even sillier when you apply them to MCU movies, which overall do a pretty decent job of addressing societal ills alongside the escapism.
How would Sam Wilson change international law? That's what they'd need to do to address the root cause that created the Flag Smashers. For that particular challenge, he's not much more powerful than Andy Dufresne. The one thing he does have is a platform, which he uses, which is something you said never happens.
And you seem to be missing the part where I'm differentiating between the villain being sympathetic and their cause being sympathetic. The former (which you brought up) isn't relevant to your original point, where the underlying issue needs to be addressed. It doesn't matter how sympathetic Thanos is. The underlying issue is that he's a mass-murdering madman, so how is it a valid complaint to say that the heroes never address the underlying issues?
Suppose you took Thanos at face value and say the underlying cause is the concept of limited resources. What would that story look like, anyway? The Avengers alter reality to address the very concept of limited resources, creating a utopia across the entire universe? That sounds a little inaccessible.
I think what you're missing about the super hero genre is that their powers are generally limited in scope. They can't just reshape the world (except in that one What If..? episode called "What If Kahouri Reshaped the World?"). They struggle just like everyone else, and then sometimes through great effort they can save the day. That's what makes the stories good.
Anyway, I realized as I was writing the Simba thing that it actually was a good point, so I prepared an answer.
The actual reason is that in the Lion King universe, "the Circle of Life" isn't a complex series of interconnected, self-regulating systems like it is in real life. In-universe, it's the dogma of an environmentalist death cult that holds together a fragile ecosystem. Any animal that doesn't adhere to the death cult's strictures is exiled from their society, like the hyenas.
And like, the environmentalism is fine, but forcing the zebras, antelopes, and wildebeests to actively participate in a system where their role is to be eaten makes it a death cult.
The system is explored in the sequel series Lion Guard, where Simba's son goes around the Pride Lands using his super powerful Roar to maintain the status quo. Like if an alligator tries to eat too many of the wrong animal, the Lion Guard shows up and exiles them. Conversely, when a hyena agrees to adhere to the Circle of Life, she's welcome in the Pride Lands. So it's really a religious/cultural disagreement. Hyenas can't be allowed in unless they're willing to assimilate.
There's a disturbing conservative metaphor there, although the rest of it smells like a planned economy. Very authoritarian either way, but then again it's not called Lion President.
lmao
You are not paying attention to this discussion in the slightest
There's a TV trope for that: Reed Richards is Useless
It has a list of reasons mostly narrative and marketing driven, so if the source material doesn't allow it then the films wouldn't either.
That would make for a pretty boring movie, I think.
Avengers: Senate hearings on UBI
Justice League: "Superman says implement UBI or he'll heat-vision you where you stand."
(I know Supe would never, but maybe Congress wouldn't!)
Injustice Supe will.
Also Red Son version
Reminds me of all the space politics nonsense in the star wars prequels.
What? That was the best part– no wait, the ONLY GOOD PART, of the second prequel!
I dunno, I feel like I would get a lot of joy from watching shareholders beg for their lives, as some god-like being casually rips through them. Ever seen Dogma?
You may enjoy the films of Neil Breen!