this post was submitted on 11 Apr 2025
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This is a copy+paste of a comment I left on the [email protected] mod post after the recent incident with the gruesome picture(s?):
βI think if Lemmy doesnβt have the infrastructure to defend against attacks like these which are presumptively conducted by one bad actor, then it doesnβt have the infrastructure to defend against wealthy organizations when our communities do get big enough to be noticed by them.
[[email protected]]βs history underscores how the messaging system in particular needs a massive overhaul; using image recognition as a filter for messages like Lemmy.World does for image posts (with options for NSFW that isnβt NSFL?), preventing images (and URLs? or only allowing white-listed sites?) from being sent within the first message sent between users (unless a box is ticked?), ~~not showing message recipients images until they are directly opened~~, and preventing the de-anonymizing of message recipients should be made first priority for the next patch.β
Edit: not sure if my comment is inciting other trolls/spammers to target me but I just got this DM several hours after commenting
https://join-lemmy.org/news/2025-04-08_-_Lemmy_Release_v0.19.11
Ah very cool. A recent update too. Thanks.
Yes. As you can see, a few large instances like lemm.ee, lemmy.ca and others have already updated: https://fedidb.org/software/lemmy?version=0.19.11
Hopefully others will follow soon
Reddthat.com updated as well... dunno how big our instance is, in comparison, but I didn't know the update dealt with embedded images in PM's. I appreciate the info!
https://reddthat.com/post/38890931 / [email protected]
What does the "MAU" stat mean? "'Something' Active Users"?
Monthly active users
@[email protected]:
That and DAU (daily active users) are common metrics used by social media companies to measure the size of their userbase, so it permits for comparisons among different entities.
unfortunately we can't just apply the update quickly, as this introduces sending emails on rejected applications. we already send rejection emails separately and with custom text, while the text implemented in the update is currently not configurable.
i'll see if we can deploy updated lemmy-ui without updating lemmy already this weekend, but i need to check if there were any api changes first, as we'd then have to backport them to lemmy first.
we've already applied the security patch about 2 weeks ago.
Thank you!
Honestly I think the easiest thing would be to not allow images or embedding at all in PMs and perhaps display a warning message when clicking links "you are leaving [instance name]..."
Analyzing potentially lots of text and images in an effort to "guarantee" safety of users is likely a sisyphusian endeavour that is bound to fail - and furthermore also has privacy issues (namely that "private" messages aren't private at all)
I'd add
as someone who was concerned about and posted on the possibility that the aim of the spammer was exposing the IP address associated with the receivers's username
that even if this wasn't the aim from this event, it could be in some future event.
I don't think that disallowing inline images in direct messages will eliminate spam problems, even efforts of this sort, as it'd still be possible for a spammer to spam messages with indirect links to images hosted elsewhere. But it would help avoid leaking IP addresses of the receiving user.
Or at least disallowing inline images in direct messages by default. I can imagine maybe someone enabling them on some kind of a private, decoupled-from-the-wider-Fediverse instance on an intranet or whatnot, but I really don't think that this is something that nearly any instance should actually permit.
For anti-spam efforts, I think that there are a variety of potential partial solutions. No complete fixes, but some:
Rate-limiting the comment frequency on new accounts. IIRC, Reddit used this tactic. It does create some issues for (legitimate) use of throwaway accounts in anonymous posts, but there's no legitimate reason for a new account to blast hundreds of messages an hour, I think. This might already be present, but if not, it'd be a good start. This can be defeated by generating new accounts for each new message or batch of.
Rate-limiting new account creation from a given IP address, if not already present. An attacker could defeat this via use of a commercial VPN, and if too low, it could create issues for some commercial VPNs.
Hashing of messages to red-flag identical messages being posted en masse. As best I could tell, the spammer here was posting many identical messages. This can be defeated by a spammer having software slightly modify each message.
Fuzzy-hashing of messages to red-flag almost identical messages being posted en masse. This can be defeated via text generation methods that are carefully tailored to the fuzzy hashing mechanism to modify messages such that each fuzzy-hashes to a different value.
A mechanism to permit an account to share blacklists of IP or message hashes and trigger removal of messages on other instances, preferably associated with a specific identifier or account. This permits any other instances to leverage antispam work by one instance; if I want to trust a given antispam admin or bot on lemmy.world, I can. Let an instance admin review and override such removals, maybe. It creates abuse potential for malicious use or inadvertent false positives spanning instances, but I think that it's necessary to avoid having each instance fight its own lonely antispam battles. Otherwise, new and personal instances risk being buried by a deluge of direct message spam. The same mechanism, if exposed to users and not just instance admins, would also permit for subscribable content filters for people who don't want to see content of a given sort (e.g. profanity or pornographic content of a particular sort or whatever, not just spam), which is another issue.
Fortunately, as far as I see as a user, we're not yet at the point that there is much spam on here yet, so this isn't yet a serious problem. Maybe it'll never happen, if the userbase never grows much. But if the userbase gets considerably bigger, increasingly-problematic spam will inevitably follow.
https://lemmy.today/post/27248848/15501047
https://lemmy.world/post/28077771/16380860
For anyone not clicking the link, but wondering what this reply means... it's a link to the user's comment (right below, within this comment chain) about a lemmy update
I was confused for a sec and probably would've skipped over all of the context because I didn't continue reading first (and I hesitate to click links randomly), so maybe someone else with no attention span will benefit as well
"Lemmy update v0.19.11 provides 'Dont render images in private message'
Not every instance is updated to this version, but it should stop the current method of spam (if updated). I'm wordy, I know; but maybe it'll help someone
They are absolutely right. The quiet part of this is almost certainly that these DMs were being used to collect IPs from users using tracking links, and this is generally a big vulnerability in the fediverse many people seem unwilling to meaningfully confront.
Well, I for example develop an automod (which is available to everyone) which includes advanced stuff like scanning images in the content, scanning the text itself, detecting similarity between two images etc. This all in an efficient reactive manner using database level webhooks.
There is the infrastructure for that, it's being developed and refined with every new kind of attack that's happening. As every other platform does, whether they're commercial or open.
I got that DM as well. And then it disappeared. I think my instance's admins saw it spammed and mass deleted it.