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Here's the thread in case anyone wants to see the absolutely wonderful replies: https://lemmy.ml/post/28288712
this post was submitted on 09 Apr 2025
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MeanwhileOnGrad
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I’m pretty sure a tiny number of terminally online socialists had virtually zero effect on the election.
I'm pretty sure that's also what everyone who doesn't vote says.
That doesn’t make it untrue. Democrats focused on this issue are missing the reason they lost the election. If they want to win then they need to understand better.
Half of your country are racist under-educated bullies but you decide to blame the other half lol. Your entire country is a threat to the survival of the specie, please just self-destruct.
Country of India burned by this comment.
You have to appeal to voters in a democracy. That’s just how it works. You’re not wrong but what’s actionable from this? A sense of moral superiority won’t help you much in the gulag.
Something like 10% of young Americans view Stalin as a hero.
A 10% swing in the youth vote could very easily have saved us from this scenario.
I would recommend basing your understanding on actual polling data and not largely unrelated anecdotes like this. Did those people vote? Who did they vote for? How many of them ever vote under the best circumstances? This anecdote fails on multiple levels to support the idea that Harris lost due to people like those on Hexbear.
Now we agree that this isn’t a good thing. But I think it’s a separate and much smaller problem than the fact that a plurality of voters chose Donald Trump to be president. That and understanding why is the real issue regarding the election.
Admittedly I think the disinformation engine is maybe more at play than democrats themselves but they certainly deserve a fair share of the blame for not appealing to voters.
It is a half-remembered poll that I don't feel like looking for at the moment, but I am talking about a poll. Don't remember how old it was.
I mean, I feel like those three questions are intimately related to whether someone is like those on Hexbear. Or vice-versa. The point being that being the kind of person who's on Hexbear will deliver answers to those three questions which are not helpful in preventing fascism.
Don't get me wrong, if I was given the power to change one factor of the 2024 election, "Make the shittiest socialists in the US vote for Harris" would be pretty low on my list of solutions. Last resort sort of attempt. It's more demonstrative that an immense number of factors were in play, any one of which could've led to a different outcome. The 2024 election was not simply a failure of this issue or that - it was a massive, (un)coordinated failure of an incredibly broad selection of American society to do the bare minimum to prevent fascism.
The Dem Party itself, of course, bears the biggest share of the blame (after the actual fascists and their voters), but all I'm saying is that even only one of these smaller factors would've changed the course of the election. And every one of those smaller factors bears a piece of the blame, for having the ability to prevent this scenario, and refusing to act.
Ok well with these clarifications I’m not really sure we disagree about anything then lol.
I just think hating segments of the public is pointless. You have to figure out how to get their support, not condemn them.
that poll says 23% not 10. Now about that poll.
It was conducted by the victims of communism memorial fund, which is a US government organization created specifically to shift the public opinion away from communism. This is also the place that came up with the infamous "communism killed 100 million people" stat. A stat that required them using the dead nazis, german citizens, etc. from WW2, and not even just the ones killed by the USSR. Basically saying that when the USSR killed enemy combatants, and civilians, it was result of communism causing mass death, and completely ignored everyone else's contributions to those number, even pinning their contributions on the soviets as well.
The write-up on the poll describes how they compared the changes in statistics over time by comparing groups that matched frames like age, ethnicity, sex, etc. They tell you how many people they surveyed. They give the general subject of the questions, and their answer numbers. They do not describe how they contacted these people to take the survey, where they conducted the survey, or provide the actual, verbatim, questions asked by the survey. They also have answer options that seem to be generally wrong, or loaded, or in some way just poor. For instance, when it asks what socialism, and marxism are, the following are the answer options they provided:
When the government owns all property and controls nearly 100% of the national economy and makes all important decisions about prices, wages, and job placements, as in the Soviet Union
Means a free market economy with private property, but one where the government provides ample social welfare benefits, as in many Scandinavian and Western European countries.
Means a free market economy with private property where the government intervenes when necessary to create an even playing field for all citizens and businesses.
Just a vague new name for more or less what the Democratic Party in the US supports today
Refers to a new system that has not yet been created.
As you can see, none of these answers are good possible answers to define marxism, or socialism, for a large number of reasons. They also state the percentage of people "incorrectly" said communism killed less than 100 million people. Again, this number is BS that is inflated with deaths from combat in WW2 when the USSR didn't start the war, etc.
The only people taking this poll seriously are right wing organizations like the cato institute, and it's million branch organizations it funds, right wing media, etc. Even moderate right wing sources cast doubt on the veracity of the poll.