this post was submitted on 04 Apr 2025
31 points (72.5% liked)
No Stupid Questions
39762 readers
1083 users here now
No such thing. Ask away!
!nostupidquestions is a community dedicated to being helpful and answering each others' questions on various topics.
The rules for posting and commenting, besides the rules defined here for lemmy.world, are as follows:
Rules (interactive)
Rule 1- All posts must be legitimate questions. All post titles must include a question.
All posts must be legitimate questions, and all post titles must include a question. Questions that are joke or trolling questions, memes, song lyrics as title, etc. are not allowed here. See Rule 6 for all exceptions.
Rule 2- Your question subject cannot be illegal or NSFW material.
Your question subject cannot be illegal or NSFW material. You will be warned first, banned second.
Rule 3- Do not seek mental, medical and professional help here.
Do not seek mental, medical and professional help here. Breaking this rule will not get you or your post removed, but it will put you at risk, and possibly in danger.
Rule 4- No self promotion or upvote-farming of any kind.
That's it.
Rule 5- No baiting or sealioning or promoting an agenda.
Questions which, instead of being of an innocuous nature, are specifically intended (based on reports and in the opinion of our crack moderation team) to bait users into ideological wars on charged political topics will be removed and the authors warned - or banned - depending on severity.
Rule 6- Regarding META posts and joke questions.
Provided it is about the community itself, you may post non-question posts using the [META] tag on your post title.
On fridays, you are allowed to post meme and troll questions, on the condition that it's in text format only, and conforms with our other rules. These posts MUST include the [NSQ Friday] tag in their title.
If you post a serious question on friday and are looking only for legitimate answers, then please include the [Serious] tag on your post. Irrelevant replies will then be removed by moderators.
Rule 7- You can't intentionally annoy, mock, or harass other members.
If you intentionally annoy, mock, harass, or discriminate against any individual member, you will be removed.
Likewise, if you are a member, sympathiser or a resemblant of a movement that is known to largely hate, mock, discriminate against, and/or want to take lives of a group of people, and you were provably vocal about your hate, then you will be banned on sight.
Rule 8- All comments should try to stay relevant to their parent content.
Rule 9- Reposts from other platforms are not allowed.
Let everyone have their own content.
Rule 10- Majority of bots aren't allowed to participate here. This includes using AI responses and summaries.
Credits
Our breathtaking icon was bestowed upon us by @Cevilia!
The greatest banner of all time: by @TheOneWithTheHair!
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
Manufacturing is costly in the United States because enforced minimum wages, enforced safety protocols (enshrined in the blood of lost workers), and regulations brought about as a reaction to violations of those safety protocols by management of the local companies have necessarily increased the cost of manufacturing locally.
In a totally free market, the owners of the businesses would be "free" to abuse their workers how they see fit. Thankfully, most of the people in the U.S. have recognized that safety of workers is an important factor. The ability to enforce safety is likewise necessary when some company managers/executives have shown disdain for safety routinely.
The infrastructure required to implement the wages and safety has increased the cost to the companies in question. No business will last very long if increased costs aren't passed on to their customers in some way. This leads to manufacturers having to face the choice of increasing the passed on cost of working within the U.S.'s regulations and requirements, or moving their manufacturing process to countries with lower standards of wages and regulation. Most companies have chosen the latter. If the purpose of owning and running a business is to increase the profit it makes, then additional costs to the business are necessarily not absorbed by the company and allowed to eat into profit
A tariff is likewise only seen as a regulation for which the cost will be passed on to the consumer by increasing the retail price of a product, and is typically seen as a regressive action.
If one wants to increase manufacturing in the U.S., one has to provide incentives for manufacturers to do so. margin, they are simply built into the final price of the service/product provided by the business. These incentives could take many forms, from tax breaks in some ways, to more favorable interest rates for specific loans (given criteria relevant to the specific market).
We’ve been trying the incentive method for decades now. It hasn’t worked.
Tariffs aren't the way either.
The problem with incentives isn't that they "can't" work, it's that they need to be at a level that makes using foreign manufacturing unattractive.
The problem is, they will leave the moment you cut off the incentive. So it becomes a permanent subsidy.
I don’t disagree with that, but it assumes the incentives are intended to expire. If the aim is to bring manufacturing back to the U.S., then one has to ensure manufacturing in the U.S. is profitable.
Tariffs do nothing for that.
That’s not correct. Almost every single manufacturing industry that was outsourced was plenty profitable here in the states. They were outsourced because it was more profitable to do it overseas. It’s a race to the bottom.
I agree tariffs aren’t the right move. Personally, I would support nationalization and import bans on certain industries.
I think you missed where we’re in agreement about it being more profitable outside of the country. I was only suggesting that a better way to combat that would be incentives that are designed to maintain a status where the process of manufacturing remains profitable within the U.S.
I didn’t miss anything. I just don’t think any domestic industry required for economic & national security should hinge on something as precarious as incentivizing. If they’re that critical, it needs to be nationalized, with strict import bans. Fuck the profitability or buttering up capitalists in hopes they’ll do the right thing for us.
What are the industries you're concerned about? I'm unclear on how a country would actually accomplish your goals without becoming imperialist. No country has every resource it needs in the abundance it needs.
If it’s an industry the nation needs to survive, economically or otherwise, that’s an industry that needs to be nationalized.
And this is the opposite of imperialism. Imperialism is what we have now.
I asked for specifics because I am unaware of any country that can satisfy all of its security and/or survival needs from only domestic sources. If the necessary resource is not found in enough abundance domestically, what choice is left under your proposal, other than to nationalize another country’s resources through imperialism?
We’re not talking about zero trade. We’re talking about nationalizing industries that are critical for economic or national security. There are plenty of countries who have done that, and the neoliberal west tends to retaliate against them for it.
I feel like the details are important. What a country considered necessary for national security is a moving target that changes with technology.
Just as an example, 1930’s U.S. didn’t have any need for national security regarding the transistor or integrated circuit fab materials and manufacturing. That certainly is on the list now. While the U.S. has resources domestically and manufacturing facilities for this, the resources are finite.
The U.S. still has the Guano Islands Act available to “enforce” in the case that a suitable island supply was found AND desired. This was considered such a point of national security that the government legalized imperialism for bird shit.
If a specific resource becomes nationalized in the way you are suggesting, it seems to me that similar acts for rare earth metals might appear and still lead to imperialism.
I see. So you are ready to try the "increase all costs" route now...
Personally I’m ready to try communism, nationalization, and a planned economy.