Degrowth

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MrMakabar@slrpnk.net

What to make of this new Abundance manifesto? (www.simonandschuster.com)

submitted 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) by JubilantJaguar@lemmy.world to c/degrowth@slrpnk.net

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cross-posted from: https://lemmy.world/post/27088982

This book is creating quite a buzz. See the basics and one review among many.

People being what they are, there's no doubt that this is an election-winning agenda for the Democrats. And the authors are both very serious people. I'm reluctant to write off Ezra Klein, who IMO is not just very smart but also circumspect and fair-minded.

But all this also looks to me like an advanced case of deluded wishful thinking. Or of "cornucopian economics", as EO Wilson called it.

What to conclude?

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[–] JubilantJaguar@lemmy.world 4 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Interesting insight, thanks!

I do remember the interview with Hannah Richie and thinking something similar. After all this careful hedging about how we need to keep things in perspective and perhaps it's not so bad, she suddenly admits to personal behavior that suggests otherwise! But I definitely took her more seriously because of that.

I'd say EK is cautious rather than a cynic (tho perhaps the meaning of this powerful word is migrating). And honestly, I share his general temperament.

What really bothers me about EK is his apparent ecological illiteracy. Yes, we know that voters like economic growth. To the point that it might even be a prerequisite for democracy and individual rights (I suspect this fear is what is driving EK). But we also know that economic growth is closely correlated with ecological destruction, and that the dream of absolute decoupling is nowhere in sight. And that there will be no social progress left to protect with a biosphere in full breakdown. At this point these observations are pretty close to anodyne scientific truth. I expect doctrinaire orthodox economists to wave them away or ignore them - but so does this thoughtful vegan. I don't get it. Am I really smarter than Ezra Klein? For me it's an ongoing mystery.

[–] andrewrgross@slrpnk.net 2 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (1 children)

He's mentioned often what a hyper conscious over thinker he is. Have you seen the scene in The Princess Bride where Wallace Shawn is trying to guess which cup is poisoned? And he speculates what his adversary thinks he'll think they think he'll think they think? I think that's an example how at a certain point, it doesn't matter how smart you are. When you're trying to predict other people, logic only goes so far before it just breaks down.

Perhaps EK has considered what you've observed. But I think what he says has to be presumed to be through a tremendous filter. Hit him up when he's on a gummy and a glass of Pinot Noir and I bet he sounds like Carl Sagan or some shit. We can't really know, because he minds his words carefully.

Anyway, I like to listen to him, but I take everything he says in all that context.

[–] JubilantJaguar@lemmy.world 2 points 3 weeks ago

Ha. Amusing. I haven't seen that scene but I know what you're talking about. Seems like a decent theory of mind for EK. What remains for me is the interesting paradox of being intellectually in awe of someone who holds what seems to be a transparently dumb opinion. Still, his voice is very nice to listen to. And that beard looks great too - such an improvement.