Degrowth

I have thought quite a bit about this.

I remember a week last year where Ezra Klein interviewed Hannah Richie, author of "Not the End of the World", and Adam Conover interviewed a guest whose name escapes me, but basically was arguing an opposite opinion to Richie. Conover had interviewed Richie only a week or two earlier, and so the podcasts created this fascinating split-screen.

Conover and his guest explored the thesis that we're in a cataclysmic crisis, and in such a situation we should be ready to shake things up. Call things as they are. Recent climate wins are nowhere near enough and demand MORE.

Meanwhile, Klein and Richie explored the thesis that we're in a cataclysmic crisis, and in such a situation we need to be very constructive in our guidance. Call things as they are, but don't create panic. Recent climate wins are evidence that change is possible even if they're nowhere near enough, so we should celebrate these as we keep negotiating for more.

These four basically agreed on all the basic facts. But whereas Conover and his guest were ready to rumble, Klein and Richie both quietly admitted to one another that they'd largely gone vegan out of recognition that this kind of change was necessary, but neither liked to talk too much about it for fear for being derided as radical or preachy. I have since joked that Adam Conover seems to be who Ezra Klein would turn into if he drank Dr. Jeckel's disinhibiting transformation potion.

That's where I think Klein is. I think he sees the logic in many things, but he's fundamentally an anxious, data-driving cynic who -- perhaps rightly -- recognizes that most revolutions fail, and those that succeed have plenty of case studies of producing terribly disappointing outcomes. So he tries to do what he thinks is reasonable.

I think he's an interesting bellwether for mainstream thought, and could be persuaded further to the left.