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Liberalism vs Libertarianism (lemmy.ml)

submitted 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

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Correct me if I'm wrong.

Afaik, liberalism ambiguously meant both advocacy for human rights and an economic system. To avoid this confusion, the economic system has been moved out as libertarianism.

For example, accessibility improvements of government buildings is a liberal movement.

Minimizing the control over capitalism is a libertarian movement.

There's also so called "liberals" which is not more than a hate speech. We are not "conservatives" or "liberals" in every topic.

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (3 children)

By this helpfulprofessor.com image’s definition of libertarianism, private property is sacrosanct, so it is anathema to socialism.

Hang out in different circles and you’ll get wildly different meanings for liberalism, conservatism, and libertarianism.

In some circles, libertarianism advocates for the “night-watchman” capitalist state. In some other circles, libertarianism on its own is neither left nor right, because for them there is left-libertarianism and right-libertarianism.

There’s also so called “liberals” which is not more than a hate speech.

It seems that you think people are using “liberal” as an slur, but we have a specific meaning in mind.

First sentence from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism :

Liberalism is a political and moral philosophy based on the rights of the individual, liberty, consent of the governed, political equality, the right to private property and equality before the law.

Second paragraph from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_property :

Private property is foundational to capitalism, an economic system based on the private ownership of the means of production and their operation for profit. As a legal concept, private property is defined and enforced by a country's political system.

So liberals, then, are capitalism stans.

This is in stark contrast to the first sentence from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism :

Socialism is an economic and political philosophy encompassing diverse economic and social systems characterised by social ownership of the means of production, as opposed to private ownership.

We are not “conservatives” or “liberals” in every topic.

Who are “we”, and how is this related to “topics”?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 months ago (2 children)

I think what you linked is its old meaning. Now liberal is more likely about e.g. LGBTQ rights, than private property. At least, private property exists in socialism too. I can imagine a liberal socialism, where the economy is socialist, but it gives you freedom in speech, etc..

I guess I'm from a different circle with this meaning.

Who are “we”, and how is this related to “topics”?

I think, a fully liberal person who is liberal in every topic, doesn't exist. Like killing people could also be a right. So "we" is the majority of the people.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

I think what you linked is its old meaning.

Any socialist worth their salt considers liberalism to be the ideology of capitalism, and as I just showed, Wikipedia agrees. As does ProleWiki: https://en.prolewiki.org/wiki/Liberalism

At least, private property exists in socialism too.

I think you may be conflating personal property with private property. I just showed you in Wikipedia’s definition for socialism that socialists are against private property, because it is very basis of capitalism.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 months ago

How about this one?

Modern liberals have held that freedom can also be threatened by private economic actors, such as businesses, that exploit workers or dominate governments, and they advocate state action

source: https://www.britannica.com/question/How-does-classical-liberalism-differ-from-modern-liberalism

(You are right about private property, I meant personal property)