this post was submitted on 22 May 2024
-5 points (0.0% liked)
Progressive Politics, Gun Control, Single Payer Healthcare and Free Abortions for All!
589 readers
4 users here now
We like leftists and liberals.
We want to ban all guns.
We want free healthcare.
We want UBI.
We don't mind being taxed.
We want to give everyone a free abortion!
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
First off, what's up with all the hashtags? Your comment looks ridiculous and it's harder to read with links every other word.
Second, MSM would not be villainizing other candidates to this degree because Trump IS a villain. He's the poster child for scummy businessmen...a caricature, really. I would not be saying the same things because I've been well aware of what a selfish asshole Trump is for 20 years...and he's only gotten worse. Did you even read Art of the Deal? He's an embarrassment to the country beyond his status as a disgraced politician.
You're also forgetting that Biden handed those documents over willingly and without delay whereas Trump claimed he didn't have them and then, when pressured, admitted he did have them but claimed he was allowed to. This isn't even getting into the likelyhood that he was selling said documents to foreign actors. Now there's mounting evidence that he tried to cover it all up. That's your man? That's who you think should run the country?
@glimse
> MSM would not be villainizing other candidates to this degree because Trump IS a villain.
You're just parroting #MSM talking points here, not proving that I'm wrong.
> He’s the poster child for scummy businessmen…a caricature, really. I would not be saying the same things because I’ve been well aware of what a selfish asshole Trump is for 20 years…and he’s only gotten worse.
Then why was he so well liked while he was a businessman? Nobody hated him until the #MSM criticized him.
I'm not parroting shit. Like I said, I've been following Trump's shady dealings for 20 years. Clearly you haven't.
He's well-liked among two groups: the ultrarich because he makes them money with his schemes and the wannabe rich because they are willing to do anything to get ahead. He was never well-liked by other groups.
@glimse
> He’s well-liked among two groups: the ultrarich because he makes them money with his schemes and the wannabe rich because they are willing to do anything to get ahead. He was never well-liked by other groups.
Do you have a source for this?
@realcaseyrollins @glimse
As far as I can tell, Trump is popular among a range of social classes but also captured the college-educated conservative vote.
@amerika @glimse I would have loved to see him try to find one source corroborating his claim lol
@realcaseyrollins @glimse
I socialize with a lot of Leftists. At this point, Right and Left exist in different worlds.
Choice of media, choice of story of the day (the thing everyone talks about), vocabulary... it's all different.
So there are things that are not strictly "true" which are taken as fact because they are needed to keep up these political tribal identities.
It's odd and unnerving but I think only when the two sides are BOTH extremist do we get actual options.
@amerika@annihilatieon.social @glimse @realcaseyrollins
That's not how I see it. I used to be a leftist and I know for a fact that all their argumentation is based on ideologies, where an idea is more important than reality.
While Conservative ideas are based on experience and tradition rather than wishful thinking.
Also conservatives understand that if someone else is paying, they are not free.
I will never agree to any similarity between left and right. it's children's minds compared to grown ups.
@amerika @glimse
> I socialize with a lot of Leftists. At this point, Right and Left exist in different worlds.
You'd be surprised. #HorseshoeTheory is a thing, but I think there's also a sort of inverse #HorseshoeTheory where people on the left and right converge on what ordinarily would be centrism or liberalism, but is now considered right wing due to the shifting #OvertonWindow. #Destiny and #BillMaher are two really good examples of this.
@realcaseyrollins @glimse
I think that's probably accurate. JFK would be seen as an extreme Right-winger now!
A source for what exactly? Public opinion?
You don't have to @ me every time.
@glimse Yes. If it was public, you should be able to find, say three instances of that opinion being espoused.
Unless it was like a super secret public opinion that nobody said out loud?
@realcaseyrollins @glimse
Like... the Protocols of the Learned Elders of Ziyon?!!
@amerika @glimse Pretty sure that was pretty popular in #Russia, and served as the origins for the modern antisemitic conspiracy theories we see today.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Protocols_of_the_Elders_of_Zion
You're talking to a white supremicist.
Their site makes it clear.
That's the reason they're citing a racist conspiracy theory.
The mods won't ban him though, because that's the kind of user they wish to court.
@LookBehindYouNowAndThen I'm not sure if he's a supremacist, more likely a racial separatist/"race realist". Wouldn't be shocked if he's racist, but yeah #TheProtocolsOfTheEldersOfZion is quite the deep cut, and his alt-right views are probably the only way he even knows what that is (I only know what that is when I started researching the origins of the #Israel v. #Palestine conflict and it came up as I was skimming #Wikipedia)
I don't make excuses for white supremicists.
Guess you do.
How the fuck is a "racial separatist" not a racist?
Gotta love how this community puts the full depravity of conservatism on display for everyone.
@LookBehindYouNowAndThen
> I don’t make excuses for racists.
I don't either! I do try to understand them though. They walk among us, after all.
> How the fuck is a “racial separatist” not a racist?
They're still racist; the difference is that a white supremacist thinks that white people are better than other people, and racial separatists think that all races are equal, but should be segregated from each other.
@realcaseyrollins @LookBehindYouNowAndThen god thought the same thing wen he did tower of babel. mixing races is no good
@cunt @LookBehindYouNowAndThen the username checks out
Funny how you're more charitable to this white supremicist's views than you are for anyone to your left.
Last time we were having a discussion you misrepresented my views with every reply, but you've really dialed in the various flavors of racist, because those nuances are so important to understand.
Conservatives will ally with racists and fascists before they compromise with a lib.
@LookBehindYouNowAndThen
> Funny how you’re more charitable to this white supremicist’s views than you are for anyone to your left.
This is an interesting take. You must not know me very well.
Have you seen my political commentary blacklist of bad faith actors? It's mostly people on the right.
https://social.teci.world/objects/a591d729-7dd8-4374-b9c7-a31b9f5e56e9
> Last time we were having a discussion you misrepresented my views with every reply
Which convo was this?
@LookBehindYouNowAndThen
> Conservatives will ally with racists and fascists before they compromise with a lib.
Part of me wonders if I'm even a #Conservative anymore. I hate big government and a lot of them don't, and the #MAGA people are pretty embarrassing to boot.
@realcaseyrollins @LookBehindYouNowAndThen
Conservatism is a philosophy, not a party. We are realists, the Left are anti-realists.
@amerika @LookBehindYouNowAndThen
> Conservatism is a philosophy
Fair enough; Conservatism is pretty broad so it can be as libertarian as it can be fascist.
I care too much about supporting small government and principles over people to want to associate too closely with the modern right, who I feel is increasingly okay with authoritarianism (look at their support of #DeSantis for example)
> We are realists, the Left are anti-realists.
That's kind of a childish way to view things.
@amerika @LookBehindYouNowAndThen Examining political spheres of thought, I've been wondering if I'm not closer to #ConservativeLiberalism than #Conservatism itself.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservative_liberalism
@realcaseyrollins @LookBehindYouNowAndThen
For me, getting away from Wikipedia is important. It's enemy propaganda. Britannica does a lot better for quality information anyway.
@realcaseyrollins @LookBehindYouNowAndThen
More likely just classically liberal with some culturally Christian conservative leanings.
@amerika @LookBehindYouNowAndThen Possibly. My right wing social values will never change because the #Bible does, but I care most about the Y-axis on the #PoliticalCompass. Can't get down with #Libertarianism because that's too extreme for me, unfortunately
@realcaseyrollins @LookBehindYouNowAndThen
Libertarianism is basically anarchy and that is dysfunctional.
But as an economic theory and a way of achieving indirect solutions it is great.
@realcaseyrollins @LookBehindYouNowAndThen
I disagree; egalitarianism is an anti-realist philosophy.
@amerika @LookBehindYouNowAndThen That's a different argument than the one you put forth though.
@realcaseyrollins @LookBehindYouNowAndThen
Egalitarianism is the root of the Left; it is an ideology. Conservatism is a folkway, which means we prefer time-proven solutions, which requires measurement by reality not human judgment. This naturally leads to a need for social order on a case-by-case basis anchored in a few general principles instead of One Big Idea.
@amerika @LookBehindYouNowAndThen
> Egalitarianism is the root of the Left
Are you sure about this?
@realcaseyrollins @LookBehindYouNowAndThen
Yes. Imagine Leftism without egalitarianism.
@amerika @LookBehindYouNowAndThen Imagine a horse with two legs. Doesn't mean that four legs are what makes a horse a horse. That's a parts-to-whole fallacy.
@realcaseyrollins @LookBehindYouNowAndThen
The core philosophy of the Left is egalitarianism; this is inherent in their origin both in the ancient times and in Revolutionary France.
"left, in politics, the portion of the political spectrum associated in general with egalitarianism and popular or state control of the major institutions of political and economic life."
https://www.britannica.com/topic/left
@amerika @LookBehindYouNowAndThen Interesting, I did not know that.
@realcaseyrollins @LookBehindYouNowAndThen
A couple more links:
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/egalitarianism/
https://iep.utm.edu/egalitarianism/
These are about the philosophy, but you can see the divisions in Leftism from classical liberal through Communism play out in these arguments.
@amerika @LookBehindYouNowAndThen I do know about #Egalitarianism because it has influenced some denominations of #Christianity unfortunately
@LookBehindYouNowAndThen
In any case, his alt right views don't exactly map to this conversation, so I'll allow it for now.
If lemmy.world wants to ban him, they probably can, but he's on annihilation.social, which is a different instance entirely.
The mods have the power to ban anyone.
Notably, they don't ban the guy who hosts a blog with articles titled things like Being White: The Gradual Epiphany of a True Believer and thinks the Protocols of the Elders of Zion is a true conspiracy.
I've been banned for some pretty stupid shit, but this guy is welcome. That should tell you everything you need to know about this community.
@LookBehindYouNowAndThen Report it to the mods. I'm on #Mastodon and I think he's on #Pleroma, so there's nothing I can do.
But I'm a freedom of speech homie so I wouldn't complain about it too much; if the speech offends you, you should be able to block or mute him yourself on your end.
I have reported them.
The mods only care about banning people who make conservatives face reality.
They're not going to ban this chode because they want him for a user.
@LookBehindYouNowAndThen I guess we'll see. It's very possible that it's a free speech community and they won't ban him, which is fine. He doesn't need to be banned.
@glimse
> You’re also forgetting that Biden handed those documents over willingly and without delay whereas Trump claimed he didn’t have them and then, when pressured, admitted he did have them but claimed he was allowed to.
So? The law doesn't care; the criminal activity is having the documents, not refusing to return them or lying about having them.
If you think that Trump is on trial just because he had the documents at all, you clearly are following the case about as much as Trump's business history...as in... not paying attention at all.
@glimse
> If you think that Trump is on trial just because he had the documents at all
...I don't? He's on trial for many things.
@glimse
> That’s your man?
No, I've been criticizing #Trump during the entire #GOP presidential nomination process
> That’s who you think should run the country?
Not really, but he's way better than #JoeBiden