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Male gaze. Much like volleyball.
Volleyball athletes were multiple times offered less revealing clothing and denied them because it actually harmed their performance, compared to the current standard.
New efforts for streaming guidelines do limit certain close ups or angles, given the outfits, though.
Y'know if that were true and it actually did give an advantage, you'd think the men would be wearing something similar too. You got a citation?
In Olympic beach volleyball, women have several options. More than the men in fact:
https://www.nbcolympics.com/news/beach-volleyball-101-olympic-equipment
This absolutely ignores sponsorship pressures. Men get millions of dollars playing in full clothes. Women have to wear bikinis just to ensure a few thousand dollars “because it sells more tickets”. Choice or not, there are structural cultural norms that nullify the offer of alternatives. Misogyny doesn't disappear just because you can choose different clothes.
https://www.today.com/news/why-do-women-s-beach-volleyball-players-wear-bikinis-today-t226134
https://www.businessinsider.com/why-do-women-beach-volleyball-players-wear-bikinis-olympics-2016-8
https://people.com/sports/beach-volleyball-olympians-react-bikini-controversy/
Female volleyball players have said over and over and over again "we wear bikinis because we want to."
Great, none of the articles mention the issue of sponsorship or the gender aspect of bias in sports regulations.
By the way, it's not cool to link without reading the articles.
There are still problems with the lack of choice, why?
Wouldn't it be interesting to try to understand why this is this way?
Interesting testimony. Should we actually ask a follow up question to the person who said this to hear her opinion about why being on TV is a factor…Nope, too late, narrative is done, article is over.
Like, seriously, I'm not talking about infantilizing women or restraining options. Quite the opposite. I'm talking about turning your damn brain on and actually look at the world with curiosity beyond the common places of thought terminating memes, cliches and manufactured narratives. It's not hard as long as you are focused on actually having healthy discussions instead of being obsessed with being right on the internet (the worst kind of right).
I read all the articles. That lack of choice in handball and other sports should be addressed, and I hope it is soon. But in Olympic beach volleyball athletes have the choice and many choose to wear bikinis.
I've never heard of a female athlete saying anything like "I feel pressured to choose more revealing uniforms because of sponsorships or cultural expectations from males." If you have, I'd love to see it. I have seen a bunch say that they prefer them, given the choice.
Gee, I don't know. Let's see if that has been said anywhere, shall we?
Where does the money come from?
Why would that this sponsor and broadcaster pay differently?
Would you look at that statement? Maybe there are things beyond the surface level that influence people's decision making at a structural level?
What Women’s Volleyball Tells Us About Equality in Sport
But what the hell do I know. I'm just a sociologist during his coffee break pondering about how invisible things like social constructs alter individual beliefs and decision making. I'll go back to work, bye.
The pay gap between men and women exists in every professional sport and is a separate problem, although I can see your point about how it could influence decision making.
This article also touches on the sexualization of female athletes in general, but at no point is the claim made that women who wear more revealing outfits are given better sponsorships nor is there any testimony from any athlete to back that up or to say they ever made those choices for that reason.
Olympic swimming is the opposite though, women are allowed to wear full suits, men aren't allowed to wear anything above the navel.
Which begs the question. If the most efficient equipment to use is a full suit (remembering here the snark skin controversy), why are men not allowed to wear it, but women are.
It is absolutely arbitrary and based on historical gender biases. But that is too complex for some idiots to digest.
I don’t understand this infantilizing of women. At least half the women at the gym and yoga studio are in sports bras.
Should I tell them they are victims of male gaze and the tyranny of sponsorships, and they would be happier if they covered up more?
Or are they adults who can dress themselves?
No, why would you do that? It is extremely rude to comment on a person's body unprompted. They get to choose whatever they want to wear. That doesn't erase the reality of social pressures or its relevance when discussing genre politics.
You’re missing the point.
They’re adults. Treat them as such.
Yes, they are adults. Stop talking about them like they don't exist, or like they are a single homogeneous lump of objects.
It is entirely possible to discuss sociological concepts and political issues without insulting or infantilizing the people who are involved. Screaming “infantilizing” like a parrot is not an argument.
Are you okay?
Since 2012, yes I'm aware. But that does not address anything I said.
It literally is the citation you asked for, dingus
The part I responded to by saying "Y’know if that were true and it actually did give an advantage, you’d think the men would be wearing something similar too. " Your link says absolutely nothing about it being a competitive advantage - did you respond to the wrong person?
That's irrelevant. The point is they have a choice, and many choose to wear two pieces. Whether it's because they feel like they play better, or it's comfort, or even if they simply just like how they look. They're allowed to wear shorts and tank tops if they want.
No it's not. Especially when the initial topic was male gaze.
Emphasis mine.
https://www.today.com/news/why-do-women-s-beach-volleyball-players-wear-bikinis-today-t226134
I am aware they have options. That has never been in question. But, like your emphasis calls attention to, it's important to have the freedom to choose what works best for you. So in the spirit of that, why are men not allowed the same freedom? Again, if it actually is a blanket improvement to a player's performance like the above person implied, you'd think that men would have adopted a similar outfit.
I don't know. You'd have to take that up with the IOC. Males and females have different body types and maybe it's just not comfortable or practical for males to play volleyball in a banana hammock, or maybe they'd all love to, who knows.
My thesis statement here is that the female athletes who choose to wear bikinis are choosing to of their own free will, and whatever reasoning a person has to wear what they wear is their own business. Though I suspect that at the Olympic level everyone is going to wear what they feel most comfortable and capable in, just like the player interviewed above.
Ah, I see. Unfortunately for this conversation, it's never been in question that since 2012 women's beach volleyball players have had the option of several less-revealing outfits. So in light of that, could you please tell me why you felt it was appropriate earlier to insult me when your cited article was evidently provided entirely to address your own thesis, but did not in any way address mine?
I didn't insult you. Somebody else called you a dingus. But anyway here's a bunch of female volleyball players saying "we wear bikinis because we want to, they're more comfortable, etc"
https://www.today.com/news/why-do-women-s-beach-volleyball-players-wear-bikinis-today-t226134
https://www.businessinsider.com/why-do-women-beach-volleyball-players-wear-bikinis-olympics-2016-8
https://people.com/sports/beach-volleyball-olympians-react-bikini-controversy/
Ah, my apologies - I did not realize someone had lept in for one comment.
And while abstractly interesting, those all continue to not address my thesis. They're addressing yours quite well, though. I applaud you for having such a well supported thesis. I do invite insight on this - perhaps the journal of ergonomics would be a better place to start looking than Business Insider though.
I'm not sure what you're looking for. If it's some kind of scientific paper on the effectiveness of different types of clothing on volleyball performance, you're not gonna find that.
You said you were skeptical of two pieces being better for performance than other clothing. I gave you, from a two minute internet search, a half dozen high-level female volleyball players who have all said they prefer to play in two pieces because of comfort and performance. Comfort itself is an advantage. Do you think that they're wrong?
Where did I say this? It has never been the question I asked, but it has been the one you've answered and I've repeatedly clarified that it was not my question. It would be nice if that was my question - indeed, I think it even requires far less than two minutes to find an answer to. But it's not my question, nor has it at any point been.
We get it man, you hate bikinis
That's uh. Well, rather demonstrably wrong. On both points.
Damn, I'm not reading the room well, pardon me then
Walks away looking confused and disappointed
(Sorry - It's a reference to my post history. You may need to turn on NSFW photos to get the joke, I know some clients block them by default.)
I'm all for the reason they wear them being exhibitionism (clearly) but that's never been what I've said. They're answering the question "are female beach vollyball players forced to wear bikinis", an easy question to answer and one I've never asked; what I asked was "if they're clearly a performance enhancement, why are the men not wearing them too?" which is a much more difficult thing to get an answer for.
Do you believe that female volleyball players who wear two pieces choose to do so because they feel more comfortable and more capable in that clothing?
What? I've said yes twice now. What has that got to do with this? It's not, and has not been, my question.
[citation needed]
Been that way since 2012
And there were new guidelines for photography and video released this year:
The female beach handball players that staged a protest for wearing shorts in 2021 comes to mind for most people when talking about this topic.
Some males want to wear the skirts too.
That's the beautiful part - men can wear skirts whenever they want, too.
Most of us who want to are afraid to.
Maybe I guess I am sarcastic but a female using a club to hit a ball. Does not really draw my engine up. Maybe it is the whole club hitting a ball thing.