I just don't understand the desire to control everything in your house with an app. It's not like that app can load or unload the dishwasher or clothes dryer. That would be automation I could really get behind. And thermostats are programmable and then left to themselves. Even ice makers are automatically controlled with a microswitch.

And yes, I did try the internet enabled thermostat thing and found I never used the app. Nor is the journey to the thermostat so arduous that I can't get up and walk over to it if I should ever feel the need. Maybe I'm just too old to get it.

But if you like it and want it then have at it. I certainly won't stop you from enjoying it.

[–] bisby@lemmy.world 24 points 4 hours ago (1 children)

If you don't understand the desire then you don't have a use case. And that's ok. But that doesn't mean other people don't have a use case.

Properly set up home automation can reduce your energy usage. Track temperature throughout your house and open blinds, only direct heat/cooling to rooms that need it, etc. Sure a thermostat is programmable but it's limited by the ability to just turn on/off heat and a few temperature sensors. You can drastically expand what your thermostat can do (ie motorized blinds) and information it has access to (temperature outside, current weather, etc).

Or maybe someone is the type to have panic attacks about forgetting to turn the oven off. Having the ability to see oven status on the go is nice.

Or maybe someone has a larger house than you and the journey to the thermostat is more arduous than yours. Or the journey to the dishwasher or clothes dryer to see if it's done is arduous.

Or maybe someone has a disability and having quick access to various things is a huge time saver.

Maybe someone has a sensory issue and loud buzzing from a dryer finishing is problematic, so they want to disable the "finished" alert from the device and just receive a notification on their phone.

but if youre gathering that much data and making decisions with it, then from the OP "no internet connected thermostats" is a must. None of your smart home stuff should be able to phone home. Basically the openWRT argument but also for smart home. Use zigbee or zwave so devices can't just directly phone home and must simply connect through a hub (that you should control).

tl;dr - plenty of reasons to want these things, they just may not apply to you.

[–] silasmariner@programming.dev 7 points 3 hours ago (2 children)

Getting back from holiday in a few hours and the weather is cold? Turn the heating on from your app before you get back. Wow. Life changing. Don't have a use case for most things being connected but thermostat really isn't that crazy IMO.

[–] Lemmee@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 hour ago (1 children)

Door locks and garage door openers are sweet to automate. My instance knows if I left by car/bike/foot, and welcomes me home with the proper unlocking/opening.

Also, never having to worry about if I left the door unlocked or garage door open is nice.

[–] bisby@lemmy.world 1 points 1 hour ago (1 children)

I've never gotten any automated locks because I've always been concerned about security around them, but also, Ive had too many warped doors in my life where I have to lean on the door to get the deadbolt to properly set. Which means that there is no way an automated lock would be able to automatically set itself.

Is the answer here: "there are just some doors this won't work on" or do the smart locks have some way of working around that?

[–] Lemmee@sh.itjust.works 1 points 13 minutes ago

I think you gotta fix the door before you can have complete confidence.

My automated deadbolt can ‘force’ its way shut when it has full battery. But when it gets low on juice, the door needs to be ‘fully shut’

So your best bet is to better align your strike plate so the door doesn’t need shimmied to close fully.

[–] bisby@lemmy.world 2 points 3 hours ago

"Set and forget" time based thermostat programming only works if your daily routine doesn't change daily or weekly or have outliers. The ability to change manually, or add other factors (is anyone home? let it get a bit colder, since it doesn't matter) is pretty great.

But I would still advocate for no internet connected thermostats from the OP. Your thermostat should be isolated to your home network (via zigbee/zwave or a quality VLAN) connecting to a server/hub you control. And your app should be communicating to your server/hub. Your thermostat shouldn't be able to report back to google whether or not you are home.

[–] Mr_Dr_Oink@lemmy.world 4 points 3 hours ago

Yeah, i think its all about use cases.

I use home assistant in a tablet on the kitchen wall, for light control, ev charging and battery level monitoring for mine and my wife's car which is not intuitive or easy in the official app. I use it for our shared calendar. Amd weather updates as well as for monitoring my 3d printer and cctv cameras. I host everything locally. Nothing is in the cloud except for the API i need to monitor the EVs and the weather server. I keep finding new things to use it for. I dont do much automation with it. But i find it very useful overall.

[–] pfried@reddthat.com 1 points 2 hours ago* (last edited 1 hour ago)

I also didn't get Internet connected thermostats until the utility company added demand response discounts. It's really a smart grid technology. This does mean that it should be secured as such, otherwise it's another vector to attack the power grid (set all thermostats to maximum and cause blackouts). Regulations haven't caught up.

[–] oatscoop@midwest.social 7 points 5 hours ago (2 children)

I work every 3rd day, so for an odd schedule it's nice. I set up Home Assistant to look at my calendar.

[–] Justifier@lemmy.world 7 points 4 hours ago

HomeAssistant and vlans are kind of the answer to most of the issues/concerns regarding smart devices this post has

I have to say though, I find anyone who leans too far either way to be extremely silly

Well chosen devices from reputable manufacturers can drastically improve quality of life

One big one for me was window blinds on a sun timer. Because after a decade, I was swapping from nights to days permanently having spent that past time swapping from nights to days every Wednesday and had signifcant issues both waking up and staying up on those days, and even now I still do

Having my bedroom windows open in the morning on their own to use natural lighting to wake me up has been extremely helpful for that, and then using HA that could be tied into external camera systems to close the windows automatically if a person or vehicle is detected within specific parameters, or having the ability to open my son's window if I hear him crying to be picked up from a nap but I can't immediately respond has been wonderful

Now there's also your Rings, your creepvacuumbots, any smart TV at all and any other host of problems with iot devices, but there are some gems that make life much better without the dark patterns we increasingly associate with connectes devices these days

[–] Bluewing@lemmy.world 2 points 3 hours ago

My phone has a built-in calendar and is about the only "extra" I use it for. It works flawlessly, and I have no other need for any other electronic calendering system. I do admit to using a wall calendar for certain things too. Old habits as a farmer are hard to break. Ye Gods, how I miss the weekly flip calendars I used to get from Cenex every year.....

[–] epicshepich@programming.dev 2 points 3 hours ago

Having kids makes a big difference. It's very useful to be able to shut off all the lights in the common areas and turn off the lights in their bedroom when they fall asleep. It's also nice to be able to push a button to start a song on the speaker for musical routines (like cleaning up breakfast to Blue Danube or running to bed to Night Comes from Pikmin).

We also have a TON of lamps, and their switches are not always easily accessible (especially because our house is a perpetual mess).

The smart lock is because my wife always used to ask me if I locked the door after I got into bed, and I never remembered because ADHD.

[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 5 points 5 hours ago (2 children)

I just don’t understand the desire to control everything in your house with an app.

Shrinking the size of my wallet and getting rid of all my keys has an instant appeal. I'd much rather just carry around a single phone-sized multipass than a janitor's worth of hardware for accessing a dozen different gates and appliances.

[–] Bluewing@lemmy.world 1 points 4 hours ago (1 children)

Did you notice your electronic locks all have keys for when they fail? For me, I only need one key for my door lock so it adds nothing noticeable in my pocket. And in all my life I have never seen any home appliance that needed a key to operate-- excepting something like you would see in a laundromat. But you likely don't have the keys for that either.

As for gates, I've owned a lot of gates to control livestock. None of which needed a padlock. But that is very much a YMMV thing. Still, if you have a need for locked gates, a set of combination locks all set to the same combination or keyed locks with all setup for a single key once again minimizes the need for a bunch of bulky keys. Plus they are all cheaper to install and operate. You can literally operate an infinite number locks with just one key or combination.

[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 1 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

Did you notice your electronic locks all have keys for when they fail?

No, because I don't have them. I have a fake rock with a key in it and generally don't bother locking my front door anyway. But I'm lazy and cheap, not terribly interested in changing out all my locks myself or paying someone else to do it for a marginal quality of life improvement.

Still, if you have a need for locked gates, a set of combination locks all set to the same combination or keyed locks with all setup for a single key once again minimizes the need for a bunch of bulky keys.

Sure. And if you're setting up a security perimeter from first principles, that's fine. But then you add an interior gate or you need to replace a lock that's rusted through or yadda yadda life happens, and you can lose the single key design.

Case in point, my front door lock did foul a few years ago. My wife changed out the front door but didn't bother to sync it with the back door. She didn't want to bother with an electronic lock because she thought they were too expensive. So now we've got a front door that doesn't match the side door or the garage door. And we only have two keys to the new lock, one of which has been lost almost immediately.

A digital system that I can just sync from my phone would be far more appealing than juggling keys. Or staring at a key dish and trying to remember which ones actually link to which doors.

[–] Bluewing@lemmy.world 1 points 2 hours ago

You can just get another re-keyable lock for any added later locks or replacement lock sets. It's not rocket surgery and one of the reasons why you use re-keyable locks. And if you lost a key, just have a new key made. It's cheap and quick. So you are still only needing one key per user. My key ring has a remote for my car, a post officebox key, (they do not deliver my mail to my house), and one door key to the house that has 3 locking doors. The car remote is by far the most annoying thing in my pocket.

Look, we all want to be part of some cool kids club. I want a new 3D printer because despite my trusty old bed-slingers working flawlessly, I would like a shiny new enclosed Core xy printer so I can be as cool as everyone else with a printer. And if I'm not careful, I can have the same problem with shiny new pocket knives at times. Same thing with digital homes. It's driven by the cool factor rather than any real necessity. So go ahead and connect everything you want. But at least admit to yourself that probably half the reason you do it is just to be a cool kid.

[–] mrgoosmoos@lemmy.ca 1 points 4 hours ago (1 children)

I also got rid of a bunch of keys, and I didn't need an app to do so. if I have to use an app, I'd hate it

[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 1 points 4 hours ago

You still need an interface. Bunch of ways to do it.

[–] thermal_shock@lemmy.world 1 points 3 hours ago

I have some lights and speakers, that's it. I like some automation things like speakers get set to X volume at 7pm, you can say "goodnight" and it has a list of items it does, asks for alarm, turns off all Lights, set speaker volumes lower, sets music in the living room for the doggo.

I have my network locked down and and IoT ssid. I like a few of the conveniences and I watch my network and traffic like a hawk.

[–] RogueJello@lemmy.world 2 points 5 hours ago (1 children)

Nor is the journey to the thermostat so arduous that I can’t get up and walk over to it if I should ever feel the need. Maybe I’m just too old to get it.

I live in a three story house, and sometimes only notice when what the thermostat is set to when I'm tired and ready for bed. Climbing a flight of stairs after going down and changing the thermostat doesn't appeal much. I also got it on sale, which was nice.

[–] Bluewing@lemmy.world 1 points 4 hours ago (1 children)

That's why you have a programmable thermostat. Set and forget. No need to climb stairs, (good exercise), to change the temp.

[–] RogueJello@lemmy.world 1 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

LOL. That's not a bad approach. What I find happens in practice is that we turn it off during season transitions so we can open the windows, and then forget or need to turn it back on again to deal with the fluctuations in the weather. The temps here have shifted as much as 50 degrees in a single day. Hard to program for that in advance. :)

[–] Bluewing@lemmy.world 1 points 2 hours ago

I live in northern Minnesota, so we get that a lot too in the spring and fall. But my thermostat is set to auto with a minimum temp of 68F to turn on the heat. And 74F to run the air conditioner when needed. It works with very, very little intervention from me year round.