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This really needs to be said more often, I don't know what's going on out there but I see this "I can't make friends" sentiment all over the internet, but out in physical space people aren't just going to "click" with you, you have to put in effort, use judgement if you're putting in the right effort for the right company, and you have to decide what you're setting aside to invest in this goal.
"I don't have time to do ____" surely applies to a lot of people and situations, but in my time coaching I always had to tell people that you don't get good at something without making the time to actually work towards it, and making that time is always going to be a you problem. You have to decide if that 2 hours you spend "unwinding" after work is really doing you more good than hanging out somewhere and socializing or even just trying new things. You have to look at your situation critically; how much time are you spending on things you're just addicted to in some way, but aren't really helping your life?
I get being tired, we're all fucking tired. But it doesn't fix itself, all you can really do is force your body and brain to adapt to new kinds of stimulus and activity, which it will readily, you just can't have both... you can't spend all your spare time gaming or scrolling and expect you're going to also be able to instantly shift gears if someone calls you up to go have dinner or play airsoft or go hiking or something. Not that they will if you spend all your time gaming and waiting.
Or you could live in a less urban area, specifically one where transplants are less common than people who grew up less than 30 min away. People who never left their home town, whose friend group also never left, still have all their friends from school and don’t need or want more. They don’t really want to be your friend even if you do click. You can meet them out dozens of times and have running jokes when you see each other, but they’ll never go out of their way to make or keep plans.
Everyone who moves to my current area says basically the same thing about how difficult it is to make friends here. People much more commonly get their friends hired with them than make friends with new people who get hired, so even that hasn’t been a super fruitful endeavor. Only people I’ve managed to make lasting friends with have also been from elsewhere and struggled.
That’s not to say people aren’t nice and welcoming, they are, they just aren’t welcoming into their social circles.
I've been told the same thing from my aunt, which moved into the countryside with her newlywed husband long ago. She only got to get friends after her firstborn got into school - the 8 years until that time were very isolating, even with work contacts.
Yep. my city is like this. it is very dense and urban... but incredibly insular.
the only way to really connect with people is if they don't have a tight knit friend group. the only friendships I've made that have lasted are with people like that... the people who have the knit groups fro years ago just don't want to bother with anyone new or outside the group. i don't understand it at all, like people will only socialize with people they went to college with... 5, 10, 20 years later and if you didn't go to their college they don't want to be your friend because you can't sit around and reminisces about getting drunk together 10 years ago.
in my city people are very insular about school, career, company etc. It's hard to find people who don't care about that stuff and are more interested in you here and now. Not what you did in the past.
Yep. I'm exhausted after work, but when I spend some time after work biking I find I'm less exhausted after work once I've gotten used to it. Then add social events and yeah, I might need a day of rest regularly, but I also need to get out and do stuff regularly.
Also, learning to flirt is hard and vital. You will make an ass of yourself. Eventually though you get good at it. I'm an awkward dweeb with crap social skills, and yet after learning to flirt and years practicing I've managed to find myself making out with strangers on nights out every once in a while. The vital addendum is learning to chat with strangers and have a good time without it going further. Once again, awkward weirdo, but I've had so many lovely evenings out chatting with people I may or may not see again. It's fun and results in a good reputation.
The best advice I've gotten and given about flirting, is to not think about flirting, don't think about the relationship game, don't think about outcomes or consequences, instead focus on being just a little more bold than you're normally comfortable with.
Don't even try it if you're not already getting more comfortable chatting and hanging out with people. Flirting is just friendliness with confidence. You have to walk before you can run. It also helps to have at least one person you trust enough to tell you where you're being weird or how you're coming off to new people.
I think starting flirting not expecting anything but practice is also valuable. I mostly flirt catch and release these days, and I think it's best to understand that the goal is to learn to have fun with it. Even when married you should be flirtatious with your spouse, so learn to love it.
100% this, you shouldn't even have expectations, the term "flirting" shouldn't be in your mental language, you should approach socializing in a different way instead of labeling interactions.
"That person is nice, fun and attractive, I want to say something that will make them feel good, because they deserve it" is a far better approach than "What magic flirt-words can I say that will make them horny for me."
(People can tell the difference too.)
Idk I find intentionality valuable in flirting, it's just that my intent is to flirt and if it goes from there well then that's fun. A sly smile with the compliment, then paying attention to see the tone of her response… it's a game and it's in some ways unique compared to telling a stranger I like their outfit (which I also do non flirtatiously).
"What can I say to make them like me" is the far more juvenile framing. It's one I've seen especially beginners fall into. Instead framing flirtation as a (metaphorical) playful whisper of interest. It should be like a scent you wear: light, discretionarily used, inviting, and yourself. You're not casting a spell to make them like you, you're simply inviting them to come and see what could happen if they're interested.
But all that is more the intermediate level. The only real secret is that people like spending time with people with whom they enjoy the time they spend with.
This is so true, and exactly like cologne or perfumes, a lot of people, guys especially, do NOT get it and really overdo it and then wonder why it's so hard to meet people and date.
What you're describing is a kind of subtle and nuanced interplay that people explore with each other when they feel good and have minds that are somewhat on the same wavelength.
I think we have a huge problem in the modern world with a lot of guys, particularly neurodivergent, who have a much harder time not approaching social lives and relationships from a mechanistic, procedural perspective and speaking as someone neurodivergent myself, I totally get it, but it takes work to overcome this kind of thinking and "let go" enough to enjoy the process and treat it more like a lazy, flowing river, than a switchboard with dials and levers to pull.
This is why the Andrew Tates and Redpillers and so, so many of their adjacent "movements" caught on like wildfire in a growing population of guys with less social interaction as they spent more time online instead of learning outside with trial and error. The promise of a manual, an instruction book that lays out steps.
And it's been devastating to our communities, our cultures and our social bonds as a species.
Oh absolutely, and I (also neurodivergent, but adhd and cptsd) totally get that, I just think it's valuable to be clear what the intermediate and advanced skill levels look like. Because I should be clear here: beginner skill level flirting as you described earlier can do the job when someone is already interested, but much like with many skills, if you're at the beginner level, sometimes you're going to see someone doing it at a higher level than you and think that they've got this magic skill that makes the results happen. In reality getting better at flirting is 90%+ getting better at regular social skills.
And yeah most people can learn that interplay in some capacity. I've known people who can only do it with their fellow neurodivergent people, or their fellow neurotypicals, or both. But you learn it by hanging out in social situations and trying to have a good time chatting with people. You start to learn how to vibe off people and how to tell you'll be able to. It makes stuff like parties actually fun too. But you also are gonna fuck up, and you ask yourself what you did wrong ("why did it stop being fun to talk to me" is a great question) and you start to get better at not fucking up with practice. Even extroverted neurotypicals go through this, though it's typically younger, faster, and easier for them. And yeah from there higher skill level flirting is just flourishes and added bits.
It's hard for those of us who actually want to help because the truth is, it's long, difficult, and doesn't make you feel cool. There's no secret manual, no special magic tricks, no guarantees even. It isn't a strategy game or an rpg, it's a roguelite where metaadvancement needs to complement what you rolled (the parts of your appearance and personality you like) and your natural playstyle because you're trying to get people to like the version of yourself you're working to become. What's the ideal build? Becoming the best version of yourself, learning how you best naturally socially interact, and building around it. You find hairstyles that show off your personality and your face, similar for clothes, interests, and topics of conversation. But you also gotta learn to play the game well.
I think negging is a prime example of the distortion that a lot of these pua/redpill/etc influencer types do. Playful teasing is a medium risk medium reward move. You might come off as fun, irreverent, and playful (in which case you need to be prepared for a riparte), but you might hit a sore spot and if you're not able to do it well you will fuck it up. But these types took that and twisted it into a version meant to make the recipient feel insecure and vulnerable while trying to feel like the innocuous version. Each subsequent iteration of that crowd took ot further until you get the modern guys saying that being an overtly abusive asshole and raging misogynist is how you get girls. And to a man who is increasingly bitter towards women over not dating him it feels right.
There's also a lot to be said for these guys feeling insecure at the power they perceive people they're attracted to having over them and lashing out against it (and it's not just men who do that). But yeah as you say it's gone disastrously for society.
I agree on this. I just commented on my AvPD, which makes social contacts ... complicated (just look in my comment history).
I haven''t been without a partner since i was 18. Im 46 now, and newly out of a relationship (but we had a good run). I never actually tried to flirt with anyone. The only thing i really did is to listen well, make appropriate compliments and give my input. I don't even look good, I've been a fat fuck since childhood and a nerd on top. I've even had to turn down advances a few times.
The hardest message you will ever try to get someone to digest, particularly straight cis men, is that appearances are secondary in dating and relationships.
I have been using examples of how our minds reinterpret visual appearances and how subjective our whole world is for decades, and still most guys who are overexposed to dating forums and men's communities will absolutely rage at the idea that it's not their physique or jawline that will make someone attracted to them, but how they make someone else feel.
And right now, people I talk to in younger generations are pretty honest when they tell me that they have no idea how to make someone feel good around them, that the very idea terrifies them, and it varies from abject rejection of the notion to responses that it feels like "manipulation" to make someone comfortable around you... so is it any wonder people are basically giving up all over the world, and new relationships and sexual encounters are basically flatlining everywhere.
This is really key. It's fun to spend an evening getting to know someone! And if that's your only goal for a date - you're probably going to have more of a good time than not.
the problem is people watch social media all day and expect everything to be easy and instant like it is on there.