Here’s a financial argument. The initial purchase price is too high for me, and the depreciation of electric vehicles is also very high. Overall cost of ownership per distance driven is lower if I drive a small gasoline-powered car.

I really don’t want it to be that way, but that’s the reality I have to deal with. Cheaper EVs are coming, but they still aren’t in my price range.

[–] surewhynotlem@lemmy.world 4 points 14 hours ago (2 children)

Must be a Europe thing. I ran the numbers in America and avoiding gas cost (vs electric cost per mile) means the car paid for itself after 30k miles. And that's ignoring that it needs no maintenance.

I thought European gas was expensive. Is the electricity over there also really pricey?

[–] AA5B@lemmy.world 3 points 13 hours ago (1 children)

It depends where you live. We have cheap gas and I live in an area with one of the more expensive prices for electricity (and there are worse), but “filling up” at home is much cheaper than “filling up” my ice car.

However

yes, we only have expensive EVs here. You can make up an extra $5k of purchase price with money saved on operations, but $10k or more is much harder
trip chargers are already in a race for exploitation, profit seeking. Except for Tesla, prices are high, maintenance is low, and they compete for trapping customers more than attracting them
since EVs became political we are currently off balance between supply and demand, so used cars are over supplied and lost much value. The quickly changing technology just makes it worse

[–] surewhynotlem@lemmy.world 1 points 12 hours ago (1 children)

so used cars are over supplied and lost much value

Perfect time to buy one then

[–] AA5B@lemmy.world 2 points 8 hours ago

Yes, I’ve argued that too. While there is the factor of fast changing technology, I think used EVs are a great buy right now.

I’m not in the market for an additional car although I’ve actually been tempted anyway …. I have two college kids sharing my old Subaru and it would prevent a lot of fights if I had another old vehicle for them

Then again my older kid just applied for a summer job with like 90 miles each way commute so may not be appropriate for limited or unknown range

[–] turboSnail@piefed.europe.pub 1 points 12 hours ago* (last edited 12 hours ago) (2 children)

Depreciation is a massive slice of the pie in all cars, but EVs are hit even harder. Buying a used EV is probably my best bet in about 5-10 years from now.

Specific cost of ownership (as in €/m) is what actually matters in the end, but most people ignore it. Usually people just compare gasoline and electricity prices and draw their conclusions based on that. That sort of analysis is not going to give you a very reliable picture.

Regardless, if I had the money to drive a BMW, buying an EV would be a simple decision. Who cares about the purchase price, ongoing expenses or depreciation when you have that much money. Since I’m not in that market segment, EVs aren’t really a viable option for me just yet.

[–] exasperation@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 31 minutes ago

Depreciation is a massive slice of the pie in all cars, but EVs are hit even harder.

I think that's a quirk of Tesla trying to preserve market share by aggressively cutting prices of their new models over the past 5 years, which naturally puts pressure on all used models on the road. I don't think that can last.

If EV manufacturers are racing to compete on price, then the new EVs will get cheaper faster to where EVs are cheaper than ICE vehicles new. And if the EV manufacturers stop cutting prices, then that will alleviate that depreciation pressure.

[–] surewhynotlem@lemmy.world 3 points 12 hours ago (1 children)

TCO is even better for electric. Near zero maintenance. The depreciation is real, but only if you plan to sell it at it's half life. If you plan to hold it a long time, depreciation evens out.

My EV is ten years old and cost $30k. It's paid for itself twice over in just gas. More if I factor in the zero maintenance (not totally zero. I changed the tires a few times and had to replace a trunk component). The resale on it is about $8k lower than an equivalent ICE. But for me, the EV was a good deal.

I'd definitely recommend getting a used one though. I bought mine new, and that makes the numbers worse.

[–] turboSnail@piefed.europe.pub 1 points 6 hours ago

The way I see it, rich people can buy new cars. Everyone else who needs one should consider buying a used one instead. After a few years, depreciation isn't quite so rapid any more, which makes TCO less of a burden.

Maintenance expenses do increase as the car ages, but as long as it isn't like 25 years old, it's not completely absurd. Currently, I'm looking to buy something that is about 5 years old, and then sell it when it begins to require frequent maintenance. That way, I should be able to avoid the two expensive extremes.

However, there's another nasty twist. Cold environment will murder the NMC cells in no time. Not too long ago, I had to leave my car in a cold parking lot for a long time, and when I got back it was about -30 °C. Fortunately, I don't need to abuse the engine this way any more than maybe twice every year. Oh, boy did it sound unhappy with that cold start, but it managed it anyway. If I had an EV, I would probably need to leave it at home, and take a bus for horribly timed trips like that.

Let's say, about 6 times a year, I'll have badly timed trips, with temperatures hovering around +5...-15 °C: That isn't a complete disaster for EVs, but it's still very bad for the cells. Some cars have a built-in heating system for the battery, so I guess that feature would see frequent use. When I'm eventually buying a use EV, having a battery heating system is going to be a completely non-negotiable feature.