jwmgregory

no. my point is that the world we live in now is the one you are describing. if rich people are the only ones able to afford litigation to support their copyright, then it might as well only exist for them. they do own everything, with the way things currently work.

the solution is, yes, crazily enough not attaching an arbitrary monetary value to information that is fundamentally free to produce and distribute.

you’re brainwashed, man.

why do i have a feeling if i asked you to tell me what hallucinations are in a technical sense i would get a regurgitated answer from google?

being blind to the obvious doesn’t help anyone, man. anyone who has genuinely worked on or even just with these tools knows that they are capable of producing quality outputs. sometimes they mess up, sure, but it also can work 1000000x faster than you can. the energy problem in turn is a valid discussion but this is just being oblivious to the obvious.

why do you guys all mistake the climate of early tech adoption as an indicator of the technology itself being bad? were you not alive for the rise of the internet or something? i think you guys all just hate corporatism, not AI, but for some reason can’t take the logical step to that conclusion.

you’re not going to get anywhere with these people.

i’m fairly certain most people are much too threatened on a fundamental level by these technologies to be rational about it. we can sit here throwing data and studies at them if we want, showing they are objectively wrong but it won’t do anything effectual.

the way i see people like this discussing the technology reminds me a lot of schoolyard behavior. the feelings it inspires in them are too much to discretely express so we get obviously incorrect quips and jabs instead of thoughtful discussion, to the roar of the crowd

so, i don’t necessarily disagree that a lot of AI shit on the market rn is useless, trite bullshit but then again so was almost every tech product between 2000 and now. some people preferred to live their lives like they did before the digital revolution. you don’t really see people claiming the internet is useless anymore, tho, do you?

sure, you believe you can do things better without it. and that might be true. unfortunately, some others believe (correctly) that they can handle a larger cognitive workload using these tools, which is their purpose. regardless of your opinion on AI, anyone well educated enough in the actual industry knows that there is an additive, non-zero nootropic benefit that can be achieved. we would say the same thing about giving someone access to Google on a school test, of course they perform better! except with AI i think there is a lot of emotionally driven thinking causing people to not come to the obvious conclusions here. just because some people can figure out how to make use of these tools in a beneficial manner and you cannot doesn’t mean the tools themselves are bad.

the anti-AI horde always likes to harp about “b-b-b but my 6 fingers” and “it only can write in corpo-speak,” amongst other things. truthfully speaking, the sheer volume of work an AI is capable of doing vastly outweighs the fact that it makes mistakes in negligible proportions. i see these techs derided as “averaging-machines,” people with a straight face seriously saying this as if something that does average on virtually every cognitive task at all times isn’t already handily outcompeting its human counterparts. sitting here performatively acting does nothing to counter the fact that the most significant minds in this field of research can all at least agree that this won’t remain the status quo for long. these technologies are in a position to vastly outpace any human being’s individual economic output, like it or not.

you are in direct competition with these individuals and technology. i, honestly, hope you understand the “pro-AI” sentiment being directed at you is less a commentary on your choice surrounding the matter and more a warning that in the future you are going to be handily outcompeted by those who do choose to use these tools and exploit them to their full benefit. it’s easy to toss stones from the comfort of the present, but, when you’ve been jobless for 5 years because no one hires the “old” kind of worker maybe you will reconsider at least keeping up with the times. i don’t mean that as scorn, truthfully. it’s a fair warning.

this is always how people respond to anti-IP sentiment. i’m actually glad OP was specific enough to not just say copyright and expand his condemnation to IP generally. i agree with the OP that IP is such a brazen violation of nature as to be sinful, and im not really religious.

in what world does your strawman argument here exist? bc it certainly isn’t this one. don’t believe their noble lies that IP and copyright legislation is somehow good for artists. people now, with copyright, are literally “steamrolled” just the same way you suggest in your hypothetical. all those people making fan art and media through no small commitment of their time are forced into a black market because it is literally illegal to draw and sell mickey mouse. but i suppose that isn’t “real” art and doesn’t “deserve” to be protected by the law the same way? dude get your head out of your ass. do you not see how illogical the entire premise is? this is an assault on you and your peers. it’s quite literally fascist at best. and no this isn’t some woke fucking rambling. this is a real tool of oppression used against us that is so well-honed people like yourself beg for the boot.

everything you said here is absolutely correct and i’m glad at least some people recognize this issue. perhaps my use of the word rational in quotes was unfounded, i should’ve chosen better/more correct diction.

i suppose my point of “these people are just as rational as anyone else” is a bit of a misnomer and not exactly what i should’ve said; to clarify i probably more aptly meant “everyone, on average, has available to them the same basic cognitive faculties and it is a myth that the difference between these populations has something inherent to do with them as people,” which reading your reply you seem to agree with. i think this is key to fighting this, recognizing that on a grand scale it is in the course of life that these problems emerge vs the exact circumstances of birth. there’s definitely an argument about free will/determinism hidden here and you’d be valid to question how the circumstances of one’s birth relate to the course of your life (obviously, there is a strong relationship), but i digress. the important part is recognizing where these people “diverge” from what we would call “normal” is during life, not at the immediate beginning necessarily.

i like the example of literacy because it helps highlight the point i’m trying to make a little better, i think. most people adept in historiography and history would likely agree that there is a persistent myth that people in the past are somehow intellectually lesser than modern people. this of course isn’t true, but it’s difficult to explain why. to the layman it seems obvious that those in the past could do less than we can, but to the trained eye you can see that people have always been around the same level of average intelligence on a timescale comprehensible to human beings. improvements in average intelligence of the species are a very gradual evolutionary process that we can’t really perceive within the scale of human history; what has actually changed overtime is the sum of human knowledge. thus, people in hunter-gatherer societies were not “less intelligent” than their modern counterparts, they just used their intelligence differently. this is the crux of my argument. the literacy rate in prehistory, was… well, zero; as reading and writing had not been invented yet. but we don’t claim these people are less intelligent, for reasons described. literacy is intimately related to the problem at hand, but it is a symptom rather than a cause. i think we should extend that same logic to modern illiterates. they’re not necessarily lesser. taming the scourge of anti-intellectualism will hinge on truly understanding and recognizing that fact, which is something scientific outreach has done a poor job of imo. that has to do with the natural human inability to do true introspection along with the difficulty of the skill of empathy: problems that crop up in many facets of this debate.

although, as you describe, this is an active attack on us in what can only be described as a class war. modern LLMs and GPTs are another great case study. “intelligent” people are able to use these tools as nootropics and offload even more of their cognitive workload to the computer than ever before. it seems like most, however, aren’t capable of using them this way, as you point out. i think it speaks to the nature of intelligence enhancement tools generally. those who are capable can achieve greater things than they could alone. most, however, will see the opportunity to do less cognitive work as just that, a way to have to think less; and they then fail to properly utilize the tools in a way that is adverse to their own intellectual ability. interesting diactem, i think. speaks to the core of the problem.

i’m not so sure this is a problem we can even solve. there’s an episode of futurama where they travel to the distant future and all of humanity has diverged into two separate species of dumb, orcish brutes and frail, hyper-intellectual imps. maybe this truly is the path we are on, maybe the forces driving this divergence are too strong to be reconciled.

any thanks for listening to me ramble

the other guy pretty clearly meant liberal in a social & political philosophy sense and not a “liberal v conservative” modern american political theater one. i won’t speak for ferrous but i would imagine that’s why you didn’t get a reply of sorts yet. it’s kind of surprising and unsettling the amount of upvotes your comments have relative to each other but then again it seems reading comprehension is a skill more and more left to a select few.

like, anyone from .ml probably means liberal in that sense but in the particular context of this comment he definitely did and i’m confused why you’re getting upvoted when your reply is nonsensical considering liberalism is not diametric to conservative ideology within most frameworks.

sorry not to be a chode but wishy washy symbols like the ambiguity of the word “liberal” in modern discourse is a large part of what has landed us here in the first place.

while i don’t ardently agree with all your rhetoric it makes me feel such a sense of solace to see some of these ideas expressed in the wild.

it’s absolutely confounding how even seemingly rational people begin to emotionally seethe when presented with the fact that shitposting and generally bullying people isn’t activism. seems to be a very human thing.

i think a big part of the issue generally is that people think of their intelligence as some sort of absolute and continuous character trait rather than a discrete aspect of your personality; i.e, the idea someone is a “stupid” or “intelligent” person is of itself, a stupid idea lol. sometimes you’re the biggest brain in the room, sometimes you’re an idiot.

i appreciate your focus on the emotional aspect of it because that is certainly the more pertinent part. imo all humans average around the same intellectual capability, sans extreme outliers. it’s more about how people choose to use what is available to them than an actual lacking of mental capabilities. these people are just as rational as anyone else, it just happens that the vast landscape of knowledge itself is full of many pangs and holes that lead to nowhere; they seem stupid because there exists a seemingly logical perspective that causes them to infinitesimally and continually spin around these holes, like a coin in a make-a-wish donation thing. not sure if i’m conveying my rationale very well but i have found that the stuff in the cracks between ideas like this is often where the calculus of the universe hides in life.

it’s not bad luck. saying that is disingenuous.

homelessness of the societal nature and scale that is present in america rn is not the historical norm. it is absolutely despicable how western culture encourages extremist individualism to such a degree as to destroy communities. even today, in the fucking present, people not from the west often think it’s bonkers how callous and unfeeling the west is. it is not some sort of natural condition for society to hatefully cast aside its most vulnerable individuals to the wolves.

the oklahoma state government encouraged on their tourism board website a halloween themed “roadtrip” through all the “sp0oooOky OK ghost towns”… my friends and i saw it that year in high school and decided to go. do you know what we saw in these abandoned towns? a whole separate shadow society. there are millions, yes zero hyperbole, millions of unaccounted for people just here in america alone; having to build a community off the disgusting scraps of industrial civilization. millions of people not included in any sort of statistic or thought about by you or i. they’re forgotten in the most despicably sinful act against the sanctity of life itself. if there is a god, i can only hope he punishes the transgressions of our society that allowed this to come to term, normalized it even.

wake tf up. this is an attack on you, your friends, and your family. this is class warfare and these people are on the front lines. homelessness is a civil dunkirk. the images of the brother dying to overdose alone in the wilderness on the cold hard ground, the mother suffering the birth of her bastard of rape in the arms of only the cold & dark unfeeling city, the father attempting to slash his throat and leaking into a pathetic puddle of pitiful death on the alley floor, the sister wandering the wilds as her body gradually decays in spite of her divine spark of soulful life - these all should inspire a sense of community and pride that are ruthlessly held up by a white-hot rage against the machine. these people are not others. they are you. the beast prefers you not recognize yourself as its prey.

i’d consider myself an atheist. maybe a pantheist at most. but to so brazenly violate the tenet of love thy neighbor will be our greatest downfall. as the walls of modern society crumble down to the ebb of time people will not recognize their mistakes. people will run around, like headless chickens, in fear of consequences that have already came. if it is possible that some cosmic force will relent and save us some which way, i can only pray.

history doesn’t repeat but it sure does rhyme, as once said

no, i just think i don’t like dealing with idiots like yourself who’s perogotive is to abscond anything you read that makes you feel any cognitive dissonance.

i have nothing good to say to those who can’t engage in good-faith discussion, like yourself. you’re part of the problem with the world nowadays.

um yes? because it’s the truth? do some research before posting man. even if you were alive back then that doesn’t mean you knew wtf was up everywhere in the country with every demographic.

apologies for reddit as a source but full time wage in 1974 for mcdonald’s was, coupled with aid like the GI program, absolutely more than enough capital to buy a family home. don’t spread misinformation. remember what was stolen, or for some never even given.