Socialism_Everyday

How much does a STEM teacher make monthly in your country (after taxes)?

And how did she get a million? What does she teach?

Care to elaborate how she earned that million exactly?

they are just required to contribute to the world more than they take

They wouldn't be millionaires or billionaires then. You don't get millionaire without appropriating the labor of others.

And what did Hungary do to the USSR? Hungary was a fascist Axis state that contributed to Holocaust and to the invasion of the USSR.

Regarding the rapes, it's unfortunate, but an army of starved and mostly uneducated peasants who suffered millions of deaths for the prior two years is bound to commit excesses.

600 thousand people were also kidnapped (from a country of less than 10 million) and forced into labour camps

Yes. Hungary was a Nazi nation. Sending the people responsible to prison is a good thing. Not technically labor camps, the GULAG system is just prison, and reeducating the people out of Nazism was a good thing. The USSR literally rid Hungary of Nazism.

There were also examples of brutal torture, keeping people in cells small enough they couldn't even sit down, and so on

Sure, excesses in repression during a struggle against Nazism happened. I wonder why youre you're more concerned with that than thankful that Hungary stopped being Nazi and such tortures and means ended forever after the 50s.

My claim isn't that the word Holodomor was coined to make it sound scary, it's that the word becoming the one to refer to the event in the western world is no coincidence. The etymological origin can be whichever it is.

Now, why oh why does the Skull Famine not have relevancy on the political climate? That's exactly my point. Other famines are depoliticized (the article on Wikipedia for example chalks most of it down to climate) but "Holodomor" is made out to be by western anticommunist propaganda an attempt of genocide against Ukrainians. The motivations, followup or precedents are left to guess, though, but that's fine, nobody will question it because first, questioning genocide is a risky thing to do, and secondly, it's le evil Russian commies doing it, so ofc we will all believe it in the west.

Just a small remark: the two search results I referred to after searching "skull famine" came from not just searching those words on lemmy.world, but also from doing a Ctrl+F search for the words to be together. After ignoring our conversation, only two results meet that condition.

Rosefielde's (great name) paper is excellent, and breaks down his calculations in an extremely easily digested manner.

Ok. Funny to me that you hadn't seen any of this before. Given the proximity to our modern times of this excess mortality numbering the millions in Russia alone, it should be a political hotbed shouldn't it? Especially now that sensibilities with Ukraine are high, I wonder, why is it that similar studies but regarding the impact of capitalism in Ukraine aren't constantly discussed? Be honest, were you aware of the scale of death and suffering caused by capitalist restoration in the eastern block? Given your original dismiss when I talked of drug abuse, organized crime, suicide rates, malnutrition and preventable disease, I doubt it. You seem to know so much about Holodomor though, so ask yourself: why is that? Why do you only seem to know about the millions of Ukrainians who died under socialism 90 years ago but you didn't quite know what happened in the region in terms of life metrics for the past 35?

However: Both of those papers show examples of addressing death rates, and make no attempt at the problem of calculating lives saved

Cool, but I addressed that already. I already gave you the Brazil example. Tell me any other underdeveloped country that, between 1930 and 1960, had a doubling of life expectancy from 28 to 60. Comparative economics is a valid method, and there is no country that had this growth at the time, which is even more relevant in the case of the USSR because for equally developed countries, socialist ones consistently give better life metrics. You don't believe in comparative economics, or in the idea that economic development correlates (especially in socialist societies) with increased life expectancy and reduced mortality?

I remember there was an end-goal of a communist state to ultimately disband bureaus

To my understanding, the way communists understand "the state" that they want dismantled, is the structures of power of class repression. Communists (myself included) define the state in capitalism as the set of institutions that maintain the repression on workers that enables the domination by capitalists. When we talk of the dictatorship of the proletariat, we simply mean that the state, instead of maintaining the repression against workers, is turned around and instead represses the capitalists to maintain the workers in power (which we see as desirable since workers are the majority and our goal is the elimination of the capitalist class and hence all class relations). The elimination of the state in end-goal communism, the way I see it, is about not needing anymore those structures to repress capitalists because capitalism has been thoroughly eliminated and history has progressed beyond it, in the same way that Europe hasn't fallen back to feudalism because it was made obsolete by capitalism. This doesn't mean, however, that all institutions are dismantled. Representative bodies, associations of technicians and specialists in one way or the other (research insitutes, healthcare, meteorology... you name it), and other types of institutions that we associate with modern states would still exist. Many of these imply political power: a higher-up of a research institution in nuclear power will obviously have some higher degree of decision-making over energy policy than your average citizen.

I don't think communism and democracy aim at the same outcome. Democracy as a concept doesn't explicitly aim to the elimination of class in society, and communism does, for example.

Do you have any comment on my insights on guaranteeing of human rights by historic socialist nations?

Or did you perhaps mean the Doji bara / Skull Famine

Hmmm. Fair enough. Now let's do an exercise: let's go to lemmy.world search, and look for the words "skull famine", see how many results we get. Oh, we get exactly 2 results containing the words "skull famine", two copypastas from 2 years ago which are simply a list of western atrocities. I wonder why a famine in India with 10+ million deaths has only 2 results in lemmy.world... Compare that to the search of the word "holodomor". My point stands, doesn't it?

That’s why meaningless phrases like “Demographic extrapolations and comparative economics” are such an easy thing to parrot - you’re just saying “and then we do statistics, QED” without having to engage with the actual difficult part (the math)

Good that you're a data scientist specializing in public health data modeling! Will be interesting. The thing is, you can easily do these studies for the particular case of the transition to capitalism, because you can use many metrics: alcohol consumption, violent crime statistics, drug use, deaths from certain diseases, expenditure in healthcare, number of suicides... etc. You can take all of those metrics and see how they all vastly increase in the transition to capitalism. Sure, if it were just one of those metrics, then you maybe would be able to say it's because of another reason, but when all of these metrics consistently rise sharply during a horrifying economic crisis byproduct of capitalism in several post-soviet republics at the same time, you can quite confidently both calculate numbers, and blame them on capitalism. As a matter of fact, this has been done widely for modern capitalist Russia, with this study talking of 3.5 million probable deaths between 1990 and 1998 alone, and this other study by Paul Cockshott reaching the figure of 12 million excess deaths between 1986 and 2008, though this latter one using much simpler methodology. Similar studies can be carried out for Ukraine, which suffered even harder since the crisis took longer to recover, and either way the numbers point towards the millions. And this is only excess deaths, not including lack of childbirth and economic migrations, both also counting in the millions.