Riverside

joined 3 months ago
[–] Riverside@reddthat.com 0 points 2 months ago (4 children)

so the audience does not come to a rational conclusion but a fabricated one

That's not how propaganda works, propaganda explicitly can be true information as explained to you before using the Wikipedia article. I literally quoted it to you, it can be factual information.

Mentioning atrocities in every single paragraph is the biggest case of atrocity propaganda, and if you are purposefully obtuse enough not to see it, just drop this conversation.

[–] Riverside@reddthat.com 1 points 2 months ago (5 children)

I updated my prior comment with a poll in Romania.

The fact that you talk of "Russian occupation" tells me you're likely from the Baltics, where this conspiracy theory is most promoted. Smaller nations are influenced by geopoltical blocks, that's just how reality works, I don't see you talking about current "German occupation" due to belonging to the EU, or "US occupation" due to belonging to NATO. People in the Baltics are extremely russophobic, this is where this conspiracy theory stems from.

[–] Riverside@reddthat.com 1 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (7 children)

russian occupation

As I said, Balts or Poles don't count. Your far-right nationalist great replacement conspiracy theories aren't factual. You're indistinguishable from MAGA crying about being run over by Mexicans, French far right crying about being run over by black people, or Spaniards crying about being run over by Moroccans.

Example poll on a less racist territory like Romania:

66.2% of respondents believe Ceaușescu was a good leader for Romania

When asked whether life was better under communism than today, nearly half of respondents (48.4%) said yes, compared to 34.7% who said it was worse. Meanwhile, 65.1% believe there was less corruption under communism than there is now, and 75.1% think public safety was better before 1989.

Some 85.1% believe food was healthier under communism, and 66.4% think the state took better care of its citizens. The efficiency of state institutions is another area where the past is favored: 58.7% say they functioned better before 1989

Education and healthcare are also perceived to have been more accessible during communism. Nearly half of respondents (49.9%) say quality education was easier to obtain, and 48.6% believe healthcare services were more accessible. On economic output, 68.5% say Romania produced more goods and services before 1989 than it does today.

In cultural terms, the communist period is seen in a surprisingly positive light. About 75% of respondents say Romanian films were better under communism, 58% prefer the entertainment shows from that era, and over 71% believe the music was of higher quality. A strong 71.3% believe Romania has lost its cultural identity in recent decades.

Yet awareness of the regime's darker chapters is widespread. More than 94% acknowledge that basic foodstuffs were rationed, 92.1% have heard about travel restrictions, and over 95% know that television was available for only a few hours a day.

Some 82% are aware that hundreds of thousands of Romanians were tortured or killed in communist prisons, though only 59.2% explicitly say the regime was responsible for those crimes. Just 14.3% believe those responsible were held accountable in court.

So, despite its shortcomings, people say life was better. Who woulda thunk

[–] Riverside@reddthat.com 4 points 2 months ago (6 children)

Reporting ICE crimes is also atrocity propaganda. Propaganda doesn't mean it's bad, it just means you're swaying public opinion. I believe that spreading anti-ICE propaganda is good because ICE are a bunch of fascist pigs, I believe that propagating anti-Iran propaganda in the context of the military buildup against Iran is bad because it serves to justify the casus belli and the upcoming military invasion.

[–] Riverside@reddthat.com 0 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (16 children)

From the text in the post, I've added emphasis:

‘Our classrooms are empty because the graveyards are full’: Iran’s students on why they are protesting again

As details of the death toll for January’s protests continue to emerge, three students explain why they are resisting a return to normality

More than 45 days after a brutal January crackdown that left thousands of Iranian protesters dead, students across several universities are protesting again. As Iran’s new academic term began on Saturday, students in Tehran gathered on campus, chanting anti-government slogans, despite a heavy security presence and plainclothes officers stationed outside university gates.

The Guardian spoke to protesting students about why they were rallying despite the fact that thousands had been killed and tens of thousands arrested in the January demonstrations.

“Our classrooms are empty because the graveyards are full,” said Hossein*, 21, a student at the University of Tehran. “It’s for them – our friends, classmates and compatriots, who were gunned down in front of our eyes, that we decided to boycott the classes.”

There is literally not one paragraph in the post text without atrocity propaganda, some paragraphs with several cases. Are you being purposefully obtuse?

They are spreading details about the crimes committed by the enemy, whether factual or not, and this can serve to justify a casus belli. It's literally the definition of atrocity propaganda.

[–] Riverside@reddthat.com 1 points 2 months ago

Iran has been under extreme sanctions for 45 years. Trump has intensified them prior to military invasion, yes, but the entire US government apparatus is complicit in the murder of hundreds of thousands if not millions of Iranians through economic deprivation.

[–] Riverside@reddthat.com 0 points 2 months ago

As an American I've long supported assisting rebels

The best way to support Iranians would be to mass-protest against the US-imposed economic sanctions demolishing their economy. US economic sanctions murder half a million people yearly, per latest medical studies.

[–] Riverside@reddthat.com 3 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (2 children)

The biggest death toll in the Iraq war didn't come from the US explicitly bombing civilians, it came from the US destroying the infrastructure and military of Iraq, leading to a failed state which melted the economy, led millions to destitute poverty, and created the conditions for the appearance of ISIS.

The US doesn't need to bomb civilians to murder them, they already murder half a million civilians worldwide every single year through economic sanctions, in which Iran is plastered.

[–] Riverside@reddthat.com 9 points 2 months ago (18 children)

From the Wikipedia article of Atrocity Propaganda (I added emphasis):

Atrocity propaganda is the spreading of information about the crimes committed by an enemy, which can be factual, but often includes or features deliberate fabrications or exaggerations. This can involve photographs, videos, illustrations, interviews, and other forms of information presentation or reporting

"The inherently violent nature of war means that exaggeration and invention of atrocities often becomes the main staple of propaganda. Patriotism is often not enough to make people hate the enemy, and propaganda is also necessary"

The application of atrocity propaganda is not limited to times of conflict but can be implemented to sway public opinion and create a casus belli to declare war

[–] Riverside@reddthat.com 2 points 2 months ago (9 children)

Most people polled in most eastern Europe post-Soviet countries who lived in socialism (except a few like Poland or Estonia) claim that life was better under socialism. Hard to blame them, I can't imagine how safe and free from anxiety I'd feel if I had a guaranteed job, housing costed 3% of my monthly income, and my neighborhood was walkable and full of affordable canteens with cheap seasonal ready meals. Sure, it would be a small flat, I wouldn't own a car, and I'd have to wait 4 years on a list to buy a new radio, but those are literally non-issues to me in comparison.

[–] Riverside@reddthat.com -1 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

See, I think capitalism can work, we just need way more controls

But that's literally the problem right there. We don't lack control because there isn't enough scientific knowledge or because the people naturally oppose this control. We don't and we won't have control because the capitalists, who happen to be in power, profit more from fossil fuels whose supply they can control than from renewables which are endless and affordable.

If you want an example of somewhere where there is this control, I can point you towards China, the manufacturer of some 95% of the world's supply of photovoltaic modules and the spearhead of electrification. In China it's not capitalists in power, it's the people through their communist party, and this results in, well, actual policy.

Your comment, to me, reads like "we don't need to abolish absolutist monarchy, we just need controls on the rights of the serfs". Like, it's literally the system preventing these controls, and once abolished, the problems sort themselves out rather automatically.

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