just a reminder for anyone who says being pro-Palestine is being pro-hamas. Palestinians want to be free and to not be killed. this genocide is not about hamas. hamas is a pretext and a justification. the genocide is really about hate
this post was submitted on 30 Mar 2025
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I agree. Almost no one is pro-Hamas. They are definitely evil.
Still, doesn't justify starving kids, bombing kids and withholding medicine which forces doctors to amputate kids without anaesthesia.
I'm anti Hamas as I'm anti IDF. Both for Oct 7th and the 16 month collective punishment / cleansing and settlement.
Hamas is not evil dawg lmao I would be hamas if the shit happened here. Any reasonable person would take up arms in defense of their land whether they agree with the organization fully or not.
If American bombs destroyed your entire neighborhood and killed your entire family along with all your neighbors and everyone you went to school with you would rightfully seek out a way to fight the party responsible.
It's disingenuous to call hamas evil. Israel broke a ceasefire, killed 500 people(mostly children), kidnapped rescue workers and executed them, and has refused to allow aid into Gaza for over a month. That is evil. Any resistance to that in any form is just and righteous.
To call it evil is covering up Israel's decades long war crimes against Palestinians. A hundred thousand deaths on Israel's bloody hands? That is evil. Reducing an entire civilization to rubble for giving you a well deserved black eye after 70 years of oppression and apartheid is evil. Any evil you percieve from hamas is an in-kind response.
Resisting is human nature.
Stop playing their game.
Any time you feel tempted to condemn hamas, condemn Israel for propping them up and creating the conditions for Oct. 7th. Anything less is giving them cover to continue this genocide. If hamas is evil then killing all Palestinians is rational and necessary. You are unwittingly manufacturing consent for genocide when you do this.
I will say that Israel is many times more evil than Hamas.
But Hamas definitely is evil, too.
They torture and kill Palestinians to maintain power. They had even smuggled a Yezidi slave girl into Gaza.
Of course, I do understand that they are resisting oppression. And that is justified. And I also know that a lot of the propaganda against them is false, such as the beheaded babies thing.
But there are enough credible reports of them doing really shady stuff.
That's fine and valid criticism! I am not speaking for all members of hamas, simply stating the obvious. The most hateful ideologies and inexcusable actions likely wouldn't happen if the zionist regime had never been allowed to create the conditions for such hate in the first place.
Zionists openly stated their desire to displace and kill as many native people as necessary to secure their ethnic majority in Israel from its inception. After 40 years of occupation hamas is formed as a radical opposition movement. Their ideology, foundational ethics, and mission was colored entirely by their material reality under a genocidal occupation. I cannot fault them for their methods or rationale under those conditions from my privileged American home.
Unlike zionists, hamas was not formed for the explicit purpose of Jewish extermination but for liberation of the Palestinian people. What they saw as necessary for those goals may or may not be considered acceptable means of resistance to those in the west. It is not our place to morally grandstand about inconsiderate acts committed in resistance to genocide. We would not cast the same aspersions on Nat Turner or John Brown when talking about their fight for liberation even though they explicitly committed unthinkable crimes against the people seeking to benefit from the systems of oppression they were fighting against. We recognize that in the long arc of history that those actions were justified in pursuit of an end to chattel slavery.
What we are encouraged or even mandated by social pressures to decry as evil are actions taken under duress, under occupation, under threat of violent imprisonment with no fair trial even during "peace time." It's not so simple as pointing to individual immoral acts and calling them evil, we have to understand the history and escalations to this point. Israel does not respect diplomacy or international agreements, they only respond to force. I cannot fault the people faced with this reality for playing the hand they were dealt. As I said in my original response: had I grown up in those conditions I cannot deny that I would be compelled to risk my life and do whatever is necessary for a chance to save my country and it's people from extinction.
It was true before October 7th but it is in plain view at this point that peace was never a goal for Israel and genocide is the explicit purpose of this ongoing "war." The media framing of hamas as evil and terrorists only serves to dehumanize all Palestinians. If terrorism is fighting for freedom from oppression then you should be proud to call yourself a terrorist and stand for the rights of all people worldwide. Rebuke those who try to confuse the term and point out the hypocrisy inherent in promoting Israel's right to defend itself while dismissing the opposition to their occupation as evil. It inherently biases the conversation. It taints the discussion by demanding fealty to Israel and their bloodthirsty crusade to claim all of Gaza as their territory. That is unacceptable.
That is all I was trying to get across, not directly at you but the royal you. Everyone is gently coerced into feeling the need to condemn hamas before their statements around Gaza, it's not necessary. Hamas is the result of Israel's inhumane occupation policy and any evil you percieve is a direct consequence of the conditions forced upon them by a belligerent occupier. We all recognize the human toll of their actions, and it is still so insignificant compared to the industrialized oppression of all Palestinians. They are not evil, their conditions are. We condemn the conditions Gaza has been forced to endure for almost 80 years. We do not condemn their actions.
Hamas is a reaction to evil.
Hamas is an exploitation of reactions to evil.
evil do be getting more evil
C'mon, let's not forget land grab
So don't mix two distinct conflicts in one paragraph Sorry to come across condescending, but you can hate/disapprove Israeli politics and their followers as much as you can hate/disapprove hamas and their followers.
and i do! that's why i made the comment. because the conflation is so goddamn common
Ok sorry might have misread/misinterpreted
i was going to ask how i can better phrase what i'm trying to say. because who i'm trying to speak to are people who think pro-hamas and pro-Palestine are the same thing because they think of everything in terms of binaries when everything is far more nuanced than that, but in doing so i seemingly gave the impression that i myself see this as a binary.
how can i make my messaging stronger?
I understood your intent just fine.
You said it just fine. Your messaging is great. Tic tok has really changed the messaging on what pro-palestine is. Like most social media the conflict was high jacked for attention and now there's a lot of loud voices dishing out bad narratives. Most people support the people of palestine to some degree. I find the tic tok crowd has made the cause more toxic than it needs to be.
This is the most toxic political issue for the last 40 years or so. It's being amplified even more and to no surprise, people have only become more divided when attempting discorse on social media.
My personal stance is to defund isreal of weapons money, refund the aid to palestine, protect palestines promised borders through economic means. I consider that a balanced take, although many would call me a genocidal zionist and wish me dead.
Yep, massive difference between the two.
Your comment might carry more weight if this thread wasn't full of people being outraged and claiming that anything that suggests Hamas aren't good guys must be "zionist propaganda".
You may not support Hamas, but maybe ask the people in this thread that are clearly pro-Hamas whether or not they consider themselves to be pro-Palestine.
The contents of this thread suggests there are a lot of people that are part of the pro-Palestine movement are indeed pro-Hamas. And there is little push-back within the pro-Palestine movement for people that take pro-Hamas and even anti-semitic stances. Anyone who does gets labelled a zionist and gets harassed and threatened.
Sure not everyone in the pro-Palestinian movement are pro-Hamas, but Hamas is a significant part of that movement. And when you have violent extremists in a movement, they are the ones that control the movement, not the pacifists. Because as we can see, the violent elements of a movement are willing to kill the pacifists if they speak against them.
Are people really this credulous? Have you never seen zionist propaganda before?
Did anyone check the sources? Two random people?
Did anyone click the links in the article? They're completely unrelated.
https://www.newarab.com/features/newcord-ai-platform-holding-western-media-bias-account
NewsCord, a generative AI platform that compares and contrasts said coverage.
Great, more AI slop.
Frederica Matteoni (writing in German for Berliner Zeitung) probably has checked her sources.
Gaza: Hamas soll jungen Protestteilnehmer zu Tode gefoltert haben
Edit, a few days later: The Telegraph quotes a known person who's describing what they did.
Hamas tortures protester to death and leaves body on family’s doorstep
Also, this is not new behaviour from Hamas. Take of look at historical precedents, I'll give a selection extending back to 2015.
- Torturing people has been everyday business for Hamas. Recently, on retreat, Hamas had to abandon some security camera storage media.
- A few years ago, in 2022, they had an execution spree. France 24 reports:
Gaza's Hamas executes five Palestinians, including two for 'collaboration' with Israel
- Back in 2015 they had a big execution spree. The Guardian reports:
Hamas executed 23 Palestinians under cover of Gaza conflict, says Amnesty
Maybe it is time to stop and consider: maybe both Israel and Hamas are committing crimes of the most severe kind. History is not in short supply of one one tyranny fighting another.___
Frederica Matteoni (writing in German for Berliner Zeitung) probably has checked her sources.
Second paragraph in the piece:
"Oday Nasser Al Rabay's body was dumped outside his family's home over the weekend, report Times of Israel and other Israeli media, citing statements from relatives."
Checking one's sources implies that you read them, see what evidence they offer (e.g. relatives' posts, photos or videos from burial ceremonies), cross-check if the material is new or has been placed into a different context... and decide if you trust the material. The source can be direct or another publication. A journalist is better equipped to do that, since they can ask from quite many colleagues. They have the benefit of experience.
Material that gets re-published can usually be considered somewhat credible.
Material that does not get re-published, typically is not.
That's making a lot of assumptions about someone solely citing Israeli papers and not claiming to have any direct sources in Gaza. What makes you think this particular woman has in any way corroborated them? She's not saying she has an anonymous source and putting her reputation on the line, she's openly citing other journalists.
Is she in some way a particularly reputable journalist who would be inherently careful about Israeli propaganda or having some inherent objectivity? All I see from her regarding Gaza is things boosting the Israeli government's narrative, including a "one year later" piece criticizing anti-Israeli currents in the left, talking about how she went to that music festival years earlier, and called herself as a Zionist.
Yes, it involves assumptions.
On the background of Hamas having tortured and killed opponents before, and on the background of demonstrations having occured against them in Gaza at the end of Ramadan, as reported here...
Videos verified by The New York Times showed groups of Gazans in the half-ruined streets in the northern town of Beit Lahiya. Some carried more neutral signs that opposed the continuation of the war, while others chanted slogans calling for Hamas to get out.
...it is not a big assumption that Hamas leaders would ask their security service to find out who organized protests against them, and to kill those persons. They are not shy. It is not news that they kill civilians. It is not a big assumption.
However, time will clarify things. People will be asking Gaza residents if they know someone who knows someone named Oday Nasser Al Rabay, and soon enough we should have more information. If such a person isn't found, or turns up alive, it will be news too.
P.S. A secondary and named source has now appeared, and claims to have photos:
Mazen Shat, a senior police officer affiliated with Fatah – the Palestinian nationalist group that lost control of Gaza after a brief war with Hamas in 2007 – told The Telegraph: “Uday was martyred by the criminals of Hamas. And what’s his crime? He told the truth, because he refused to be silent on injustice, because he did not kneel to Hamas.”
Mr Shat said Hamas had tortured the young man for four hours. Images showed open wounds and bruising that left their victim’s body swollen and bloody.
No it can't be!!! You mean both sides have extremeist elements that do bad things?
You mean a lot of people are really just innocent victims of the perpetuation of conflict? Two warring nations doing tick for tack violence to each other for no other reason than the last random active violence? Quote some 800 year old history of violence and do some more?
If both sides are bad can you please explain how I can virtue signal and make this about me?
This is some absolute bullshit. I guess the bots and misinformation bombing has started again. Even on cursory glance this is some bullshit. So hamas are being targeted by Israel, that's who they're supposedly bombing, even when they're underground they're bombing them, under tents, under hospitals, under all the children they can find, but they just go out, put orders on and kill their own citizens? How stupid do they think we are. I haven't seen one of these propaganda pieces that actually have or pass basic common sense.
What's bullshit is that you believe that people capable of the horrific things that happened on October 7 would never ever torture and kill people that threatened their power.
Hamas is a fascist organization, and this is how fascists roll.
Netanyahu put hamas in power. And yes there's been reports from people captured by hamas. They don't paint that picture at all. The only thing that paints that picture is Israeli propaganda. I don't understand why launching missiles, after being under attack for decades, is seen as a horrific act, but bombing and targeting children, as Israel is doing for a year and a half, not once, like hamas did, is somehow not. What you're reading isn't the truth. It's out there of you look. And you don't have to look far to find it, first hand accounts. Doctors in the hospitals there, actual footage. How do you think that made up bullshit, flies at all. Please tell me you accidentally fell down that hole of propaganda, not that you're just a troll for Isreal, because there's lots of them. More on reddit than here. I suppose that was going to change.