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Welcome to c/[email protected]. Broadly, this community is a place to discuss veganism. Discussion on intersectional topics related to the animal rights movement are also encouraged.
'Veganism is a philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude—as far as is possible and practicable—all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals ...'
— abridged definition from The Vegan Society
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Guilty conscience meat eaters use concern trolling to salvage their own self-esteem. In my experience, those expressions of worry are back handed compliments at best. They never come from people who are in better shape than I am and they don't come from people with better nutrition either.
Wow you really nailed it.
I lost 58kg and the only things I ever heard was concern trolling from my friends that resented me for doing what they could not.
Never heard word one about my body while I was unhealthy and unhappy, and the shitty remarks started as soon as the weight reduction became noticeable.
"Woah slow down, don't want you to disappear!" "You've proven your point! You can eat a donut!" "Why do you want to be miserable and only eat seeds?" "Fuck dude you're vanishing! Eat a hamburger!" "You think you're better than everyone now!" "It's actually really unhealthy to be as lean as you've become." "Don't like hanging out anymore, you make me think about every molecule I put in my damned mouth!" "You look like a skeleton now."
And so forth.
Wow those are shitty people. Good on you for losing that weight, as a hefty fellow it's fucking haaaaard work and you should be proud of the effort you put in!
Thanks for the support!
I made so many changes in my journey. I taught myself to cook and made every meal from scratch ingredients... for 6 months. I'm reminiscing now thinking about how many tortillas I've pressed, sauces I've made, things I've fermented, and hundreds of hours on the cutting board. How many times I ordered a "kid size" pizza or sundae on my "cheat" days lol
I ran (poorly), swam, rode, lifted and burned so many calories. I meditated every day and did monthly therapy to help with the mental stress of the physical and lifestyle changes. That is all time, effort, pain, money, and sacrifice.
Every day without wavering I made a hundred difficult little choices that prioritized my goals vs my desires/old patterns. Food everywhere and people genuinely insulted when I wouldn't partake with them or in their way. Watching my friends literally not enjoy their meal from their own shame, just because my serving was conspicuously smaller. Dealing with my biology compelling me to eat one way while I was consciously reprogramming myself to eat another way. Massive social pressures from all sides.
I never really even told anybody of my goals or changes. I didn't make it my personality or a thing. Never spoke of it once or advocated anything to my friends. Only spoke about being slimmer when specifically asked.
That's why it was so hurtful to undertake such tremendous responsibility for my own personal transformation, and then have people internalize it, make my journey about how them and how they feel shitty when they look at me, then make a snide or sinister comment. Only my best friend of 30 years gave me any positive feedback.
The whole thing was kind of a rough ride. Worth it in the end, but wow it was so much more than just eating less.
Thanks for listening. I really appreciate your comment a lot!
Good on you, yeah you can't downplay the fortitude required to make such life altering changes. It's so easy to slip back into the status quo. That being said for anyone else reading, if you've tried, and failed, remember that you got further along than if you never tried at all. Keep at it, don't beat yourself up, you can do it!
I have literally stopped talking to a sibling becauase they think it is funny to make jokes about my veganism, or ask if I am still vegan (for life), or if I miss the taste of meat (no, I find the smell nauseating).
It is a lack of respect for life choices, made more loathesome because my choice is made on an ethical foundation, not a whim.
Honestly, that is just one reason. They are a jerk and a bully, like everyone else who comes on here feeling the need to dismiss veganism or claim feeling attacked by it.
Just like other kinds of prejudice, these negative reactions betray a profound level of ignorance that go beyond infuriating to pitiful.
I've never understood full veganism. Is it not morally okay to consume animal products (such as milk or eggs) from actual free roaming and happy animals? And not the BS marketed "free range" products in the US.
Say I have 10 acres and keep a dozen or so chickens to roam around and eat all the ticks on my property, is it morally wrong to eat their eggs?
I'm not Vegan, so I can't speak for them, but here's my understanding
if you live in an urban environment, it's basically impossible to get what you're referring to. Maybe if you were willing to have it shipped to you at great cost and not insignificant effort, but the only thing available at stores in the US is the BS marketed "free range" stuff. And even if you find a place that claims to be the real deal, how do you verify? Basically, it's easier for most people to just go Vegan then to seriously vet every source of animal products
Additionally, many vegans believe it to be a genuinely healthier diet than an omnivore diet. And please don't respond with " we evolved to be meat eaters" or something like that, because we didn't "evolve" to do practically any of the things modern life entails, including a lot of what we eat. Beyond that one BS counterargument though, I make no claims as to whether they're right. Anecdotally, my sister in law suffered from IBS her whole life until she went Vegan, when the problem went away entirely. So it certainly has benefit for some people
Finally, for a lot of vegans it's an issue of consent - some might say that you shouldn't eat those eggs in your example for the simple reason that they don't belong to you, and you can't morally take them, because theres no way to ask consent, and so you shouldn't. Again, you don't have to agree with the outlook, but that's the way several vegans have explained it to me.
If any actual vegans come along and think I'm misrepresenting something, feel free to correct it
Wanted to add a few arguments I saw about eggs, first that we selectively bred chickens to produce eggs at an extremely high rate (unsure what this does to their well-being, but apparently the laying itself is painless). Second, the chicken's eggs could be seen as the "work" they do in exchange for keeping them healthy and happy.
The eggshell requires calcium. At the rates at which modern egg laying hens ovulate, their bones become far more fragile to siphon it. That is to say that their ability to self sustain and survive for the total lifespan of a chicken is greatly reduced.
Thats only if you arent feeding them a regular source of calcium.
Which would happen to literally any animal not properly fed.
Supplements and well managed diets do help, but of the available data, it looks like 12-35% are still deficient depending on area of the world. I checked for studies in USA and Europe. And of course, once that's determined for particular chicken who end up producing thin shell eggs - they get killed.
And ultimately, they've been bred to rely on said diet and supplementing. Vegans are against breeding as it is, let alone breeding them to be dependent.
Almost all domestic animals are dependant, thats how mutualistic symbiotic partnerships work. Humans are only recently arguably capable of abandoning that dependance, none of our symbiotic partners can match that. Im really creeped out by what youre implying here, we shouldnt kill off our evolutionary partners just because we dont need them any longer.
And.... "Bred to rely on said diet" is a crazy thing to say, no? All animals rely on their diet. Some breeds of chicken have a higher calcium intake requirement, but so do some breeds of human. Not an excuse nor reason to drive either extinct.
Homie the problem with breeding them like this is selecting them to ovulate 300 times a year so we can steal their excretions.
Symbiotic relationships don't involve human breeding intervention. Least of all when it's for selecting traits that come to the animal's detriment. I'm not opposed to rescuing animals or providing accomodations for animals facing extinction so as to safetly raise young with minimimal human interaction.
You know what else isn't a partnership? Slitting their throats. Which happens to these chickens. Thats creepy. Assuming you aren't Vegan, which I don't think you identify as much, idk why you care if they go extinct - because you want to keep eating them? I just don't see good faith framing in your interpretation of what I said at all.
Not a vegan, but most vegans I've met seem healthy and keto is seriously bad for you, so I do not fit this meme.