Ask Lemmy

Those promotion and raise promises are often not kept, so get them laid out in writing. If getting certified is part of your job then you should get paid for it in time and money.

Had the same conversation with my boss, and I specifically asked him "Is this certificaton job related or is it just so someone can check a box on a spreadsheet somewhere? If it's job related, I'm absolutely down for it, what does the new role entitle and what's the increase in pay for it?"

Response? Silence.

Based on what you said, these are not required for you to do your job, only for you to improve your position. It is not unreasonable for you to use personal time for self-improvement. It's also not unreasonable for you to use company downtime for self-improvement.

I hate the idea of "personal" time. It doesn't belong to my job by default. It's all my personal time. If they want any of it they will need to pay.

At my last job I was asked to get a certain cert as one of my yearly goals. When I asked for time to study, I was told to do it on my own time. I said "If you want me to do this on my own time, clearly it is optional and I'm not doing it." and then I didn't.

In my case there was no raise to be had from doing it though, so it was easier to refuse. Good luck!

If your company, for which your boss is an agent and therefore part of, is ASKING YOU to get this cert, then the study is labor done as a part of you position. You need to be paid for this work.

If the company is only making it a prerequisite for advancement, and not asking you to get it per se, then reimbursement is reasonable.

If you happen to have a Union then check with them.

You state "Getting certs is part of what is required for me to get bigger raises and get promoted and all that jazz." So this is not a required part of your CURRENT position. If you want a better position, you will need to invest in yourself, using some of your own time. Sounds like the employer is already paying for the courses and tests, the rest is now up to you.

Do not go in to your meeting with a bad attitude, you will just piss off your boss. Accept that if you want a promotion and higher pay that you are going to have to give up some personal time to get there. Remember, they've already given you time, and you failed, multiple times from what you wrote, so now it is time for you to hunker down and do it on your own time.

"Using my own time for work stuff is unacceptable to me, and I am prepared to quit this job and get a different one that doesn't ask me to work off the clock if you press this matter."

Don't try to reason them into accepting your way of thinking, just state your position and what you're willing to do to pursue it

Incidentally, if "I am prepared to quit this job" does not currently apply to you, you should not be having this conversation.

e; partial_acumen had a way better answer

“Using my own time for work stuff is unacceptable to me. It was not enumerated in the job listing when I was hired that off-clock unpaid work was required to keep this job and ~~I am prepared to quit this job and get a different one that doesn’t ask me to work off the clock if you press this matter~~ if the company terminates me for refusing to work unpaid off the clock I'd be happy to raise that with the Department of Labor for a case of wage theft.”

e2; this is all assuming you're ok with losing this job and waiting through a lawsuit and several years to get what you're owed by this employer

Continuous Professional Development (CPD) is a trait of professional careers. Do you think doctors, nurses, etc only study on work time?

If you're not in such a professional field, discuss remuneration for doing it in your free time as the company will benefit. You need to figure out how much you want for a raise, and if things fall through remind them you'll be more employable and you can go elsewhere after passing. Maybe even push for an early raise now to keep you as it seems they like you.