this post was submitted on 27 May 2024
3 points (80.0% liked)

Unpopular Opinion

8350 readers
203 users here now

Welcome to the Unpopular Opinion community!

How voting works:

Vote the opposite of the norm.

If you agree that the opinion is unpopular give it an arrow up. If it's something that's widely accepted, give it an arrow down.

Guidelines:

Tag your post, if possible (not required)

  • If your post is a "General" unpopular opinion, start the subject with [GENERAL].
  • If it is a Lemmy-specific unpopular opinion, start it with [LEMMY].

Rules:

1. NO POLITICS

Politics is everywhere. Let's make this about [general] and [lemmy] - specific topics, and keep politics out of it.

2. Be civil.

Disagreements happen, but that doesn’t provide the right to personally attack others. No racism/sexism/bigotry. Please also refrain from gatekeeping others' opinions.

3. No bots, spam or self-promotion.

Only approved bots, which follow the guidelines for bots set by the instance, are allowed.

4. Shitposts and memes are allowed but...

Only until they prove to be a problem. They can and will be removed at moderator discretion.

5. No trolling.

This shouldn't need an explanation. If your post or comment is made just to get a rise with no real value, it will be removed. You do this too often, you will get a vacation to touch grass, away from this community for 1 or more days. Repeat offenses will result in a perma-ban.

6. Defend your opinion

This is a bit of a mix of rules 4 and 5 to help foster higher quality posts. You are expected to defend your unpopular opinion in the post body. We don't expect a whole manifesto (please, no manifestos), but you should at least provide some details as to why you hold the position you do.

Instance-wide rules always apply. https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
JonsJava@lemmy.world
lemann@lemmy.world
ptz@dubvee.org
technopagan@lemmy.world
Dremor@lemmy.world
3
Linux is still not ready to replace Windows (lemmy.world)
submitted 2 years ago by Brkdncr@lemmy.world to c/unpopularopinion@lemmy.world
29 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 

Windows 10 EoL is fast approaching, so I thought I’d give Linux a try on some equipment that won’t be able to upgrade to Windows 11. I wanted to see if I will be able to recommend an option to anyone that asks me what they should do with their old PC.

Many years ago I switched to Gentoo Linux to get through collage. I was very anti-MS at the time. I also currently interact with Linux systems regularly although they don’t have a DE and aren’t for general workstation use.

Ubuntu: easy install. Working desktop. Had issues with getting GPU drivers. App Store had apps that would install but not work. The App Store itself kept failing to update itself with an error that it was still running. It couldn’t clear this hurdle after a reboot so I finally killed the process and manually updated from terminal. Overall, can’t recommend this to a normal user.

Mint: easy install. Switching to nvidia drivers worked without issue. App Store had issues with installing some apps due to missing dependencies that it couldn’t install. Some popular apps would install but wouldn’t run. Shutting the laptop closed results in a prompt to shutdown, but never really shuts off. Update process asks me to pick a fast source (why can’t it do this itself?)

Both: installing apps outside of their respective stores is an adventure in terminal instead of a GUI double-click. Secure boot issues. Constant prompt for password instead of a simple PIN or other form of identity verification.

Search results for basic operations require understanding that what works for Ubuntu might not work for Mint.

While I personally could work with either, I don’t see Linux taking any market share from MS or Apple when windows 10 is retired.

top 29 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] spujb@lemmy.cafe 1 points 2 years ago (3 children)

It’s so wild that I have seen like, four Linux people in my lifetime admit the simple truth that every version of Windows and macOS, iOS and Android since conception have been geared progressively more toward being absolutely friendly to users that are dumb as rocks—in a good way—where Linux has absolutely not. And that this barrier is 100% of the difference between proprietary desktop environments and Linux. Linux is majority developed for power users, full stop. The closest I have seen to the contrary is like, maybe the Adwaita devs, and unfortunately they don’t have the reach to apply their knowledge to essential UX stuff like app installation or hardware compatibility.

This is why I get so frustrated with the “just switch to Linux, loser” crowd, because it’s so utterly disconnected with the reality that most people do not have the resources to invest in any kind of learning curve. It has to be intuitive and accessible from the start. Web developers understand this. MS, Apple, and Google get it. Like, even people who design public transportation understand that they must cater to a user who is drunk and not fluent in the local language when designing signage and systems. Why doesn’t the vast majority of the Linux community get it?

[–] ryathal@sh.itjust.works 1 points 2 years ago

Linux is stuck in the I had to do X so you have to do it too mindset. They are generally opposed to user friendly options if it means removing pain they feel is core to the experience.

[–] Illuminostro@lemmy.world 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Because a lot of them are the kind of computer geek who makes "normies" hate computer geeks. You know the type: condescending, arrogant, passive aggressive, a mild bully. The kind that enjoys making other people who don't share their hobby feel stupid. I think they should be forced to work in an auto shop, or a house framing crew, or a plumber crew, and see what it feels like to be made to feel stupid on a skill you have no experience in. I worked IT, and these guys are repulsive, especially while they're mocking and belittling the elderly, or the mentally disabled.

[–] spujb@lemmy.cafe 1 points 2 years ago

the *nix community has a toxicity problem, absolutely. it’s tradition at this point, a culture stemming back to rtfm. i highly applaud those voices in the FOSS movement that break this stereotype and embrace the user without question.

[–] Lost_My_Mind@lemmy.world 1 points 2 years ago

Linux is majority developed for power users, full stop.

I feel this needs to be a sticky at the top of every page on all of Lemmy. This NEEDS to be heard.

With AI being what it is, I'm not going to go past Windows 7.

I'm not going to spend big money on apple devices.

But I can't figure out Linux. I want to use linux. But I have no ability to.

[–] awesome_lowlander@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Philosophy time: Is it unpopular opinion if 90% of PC users agree with you?

[–] TonyTonyChopper@mander.xyz 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

On the other hand, this is an unpopular opinion on Lemmy

[–] Brkdncr@lemmy.world 0 points 2 years ago (2 children)

Which is why I posted it. I was honestly hoping to be proven wrong, but instead I got a lot of victim blaming. Even Linux users aren’t ready to accept mainstream people coming from Windows.

[–] tastysnacks@programming.dev 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Victim blaming? Who's the victim?

[–] Brkdncr@lemmy.world -1 points 2 years ago

A bunch of people telling me I did it wrong, or used the wrong distro, or that 90% of normal windows users will know how to troubleshoot software that isn’t installing right by going into terminal.

The victim is either the typical normal user or me depending on these types of responses.

[–] mojo_raisin@lemmy.world -1 points 2 years ago

Why do Windows users feel entitled to the free labor of others.

I don't think open source developers should feel obligated to chase after "normal users", they should just make great software. Linux is arguably the most successful OS that has ever existed, if it's not dominant in one specific shrinking sector is that the worst thing in the world?

Linux (+ everything needed for a desktop) has been a great desktop system for 20+ years, most difficulties aren't the fault of Linux, they're the fault of vendors failing to support and/or Microsoft throwing up barriers to competition.

[–] enbyecho@lemmy.world 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Overall, can’t recommend this to a normal user.

How do you know you are not an abnormal user?

[–] Brkdncr@lemmy.world 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Because I’ve been working with the Normal Users for 20 years.

[–] SapientLasagna@lemmy.ca 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I think you're massively overestimating what normal users are willing to do. Normal users aren't going to install Linux because normal users don't install operating systems. Other things normal users don't do:

  • Install drivers
  • Configure hardware (including printers)
  • Run system recovery
  • Run OS upgrades (unless forced on them)

When the upgrade from windows 7 to 10 resulted in broken systems/applications, some normal users paid someone to fix it, but most bought a new computer.

In short, Linux is ready to replace Windows, but only in the cases where it's sold preinstalled on supported hardware. Android, ChromeOS and Steamdecks are good examples of this.

[–] Brkdncr@lemmy.world -1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

You’ve hit on a good point, which is that the steam deck is an abnormal success in this space.

But you’ve also missed a point. The install of the OS wasn’t being evaluated. Daily use was.

[–] havokdj@lemmy.world 1 points 2 years ago

The daily use thing isn't going to be an issue because things like drivers and dependencies would be sorted out for end users on a machine thst is being manufactured and sold

[–] ohwhatfollyisman@lemmy.world 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

don't worry about it. with the enshittification of win 11, that gap will close faster than copilot will record your activities.

[–] ThePowerOfGeek@lemmy.world 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Those upcoming changes are why I've been playing with the idea of a complete switch to Linux. While I use Linux regularly (but certainly not exclusively) and feel comfortable making the transition to it from Windows, my wife and kids would struggle with some aspects of Linux. And committing all of us to that OS transition would mean a commitment for me of troubleshooting, assisting, and educating the family.

Thanks OP for this post. I know you're getting some shit for it, but I and others appreciate your honest findings.

I don't think OP's analysis should be taken as offensive or disingenuous by others here. And I don't understand why they are getting shit. I've been using Linux off and on for 20 years. It's come an insanely long way in that timeframe with its usability for less technical users. But yes, there are still some gaps to fill. And the way to fix them is to listen to honest feedback like OP's.

[–] ricdeh@lemmy.world -1 points 2 years ago

If OP is unwilling to learn basic features of the OS, of course they face criticism. This post is not a good contribution, it is once more a superficial review by someone who has jumped on the hating GNU/Linux bandwagon because they somehow personally identify with M$. But the Apple crowd is worse.

[–] fine_sandy_bottom@discuss.tchncs.de 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

"replacing windows" should not be the objective of the Linux desktop ecosystem.

[–] Kolanaki@yiffit.net 0 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

Tell that to every Linux fan that responds with "just install Linux" to every single Windows related issue posted anywhere.

[–] burgersc12@mander.xyz 1 points 2 years ago

But like.... what other option is there? Windows sucks absolute ass and its not getting better.

[–] Rayspekt@lemmy.world 0 points 2 years ago (2 children)

I think there is no general answer to "Is Linux mainstream ready to replace Windows?" because the use case is so important to consider.

If you just need a PC to browse the web and consume media then Linux is absolutely fine. This should more or less apply to a large group of users that don't do anything else with their devices.

Are you a gamer? Then I'd say more or less perfectly fine but it really depends on the games you want to play. Everything with the new, invasive anti-cheat tools doesn't work (e. g. League of Legends) but smaller, single player, or many multi player games do work at the moment.

Are you a professional or are using otherwise specific software? This is the biggest hurdle I see at the moment. CAD programs for engineering are a big problem for example.

And last but not least: Are you using periphery that needs specific drivers? Printers, audio interfaces, and whatnot. Then you might be out of luck as well if you can't script.

The last two points are the only ones that would worry me when I won't have at least one windows machine lying around.

[–] Lost_My_Mind@lemmy.world 1 points 2 years ago

I think there is no general answer to “Is Linux mainstream ready to replace Windows?”

Incorrect. The answer is "No."

[–] Brkdncr@lemmy.world 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

So Linux is fine until you need to print, use software and some other scenarios? Explain that to my niece.

[–] Rayspekt@lemmy.world 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Your niece sets her windows pc up herself then or how can I understand your example?

[–] Freeman@lemmings.world 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Thats the thing, setting up a windows pc is really easy for the average user Hear me out: They dont have all the expectations and knowledge about different OSses that we have so they just navigate their current system to get to where they need to be or else ask a PC-literate person. No PC-illiterate person was bithered by cortana in the setup process or the games or weather in the startmenu.

[–] Rayspekt@lemmy.world 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

You tried Mint yourself. Wouldn't you agree that setting up mint is exactly as difficult as windows? Only thing is that people aren't accustomed to it, but it's hardly more difficult. And those pc-illiteraze users don't set up their PCs adter all I'd argue. It's the pc vendor or nephew or whoever that sets up the rig.

Only thing is that it's unfamiliar, not more difficult. But if that's the problem, then it's just ppl not wanting to adapt to anything for the sake of it.

[–] Freeman@lemmings.world 1 points 2 years ago

To be honest, for a fair review I would have to define the "setup" better. For Linux Mint I had to prepare a USB to flash it and mess in the BIOS while all my Win machines came with it installed. But we dont count that I assume. Besides that the initial setup was easier/faster on LM. But then for the most people finding and installing further programms is easier on a Win machine is easier, because many things are already installed. Some things might be bloat for some people but for tech-illiterate people having they might be useful: They already have a mail client (or even two....), the whole office suit (just one login away), hardware that is compatible for sure (even the fingerprint scanner and camera for face-login), and so on. Me personally am bothered by bloat, long startup times, bloat, telemertry and so on like many tech-guys. But then I think to my grandma who opens her old Win10 laptop, then goes to set up her iron-board (for clothes, idk how thats called) because she is used to having old machines. Then she looks at the desktop and clicks the icon with the word "Mail" in it, because all she needs know is that whe wants to check her emails.

So if I set up my old laptop for her, its easier and faster to setup a fresh windows, arrange the already installed icons on the desktop and do the logins for her. With Linux Mint I would have to bother with finding a compatible mailclient. Altho its not really that big of a deal, I admit.

So my conclusion is, maybe 2025 is the year of Linux, when there is a very noob-friendly OS which has at least some "bloat" already installed.