One of the stupidest trends of all time.
this post was submitted on 28 Jan 2024
53 points (100.0% liked)
linuxmemes
28504 readers
1166 users here now
Hint: :q!
Sister communities:
Community rules (click to expand)
1. Follow the site-wide rules
- Instance-wide TOS: https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/
- Lemmy code of conduct: https://join-lemmy.org/docs/code_of_conduct.html
2. Be civil
- Understand the difference between a joke and an insult.
- Do not harrass or attack users for any reason. This includes using blanket terms, like "every user of thing".
- Don't get baited into back-and-forth insults. We are not animals.
- Leave remarks of "peasantry" to the PCMR community. If you dislike an OS/service/application, attack the thing you dislike, not the individuals who use it. Some people may not have a choice.
- Bigotry will not be tolerated.
3. Post Linux-related content
- Including Unix and BSD.
- Non-Linux content is acceptable as long as it makes a reference to Linux. For example, the poorly made mockery of
sudoin Windows. - No porn, no politics, no trolling or ragebaiting.
- Don't come looking for advice, this is not the right community.
4. No recent reposts
- Everybody uses Arch btw, can't quit Vim, <loves/tolerates/hates> systemd, and wants to interject for a moment. You can stop now.
5. π¬π§ Language/ΡΠ·ΡΠΊ/Sprache
- This is primarily an English-speaking community. π¬π§π¦πΊπΊπΈ
- Comments written in other languages are allowed.
- The substance of a post should be comprehensible for people who only speak English.
- Titles and post bodies written in other languages will be allowed, but only as long as the above rule is observed.
6. (NEW!) Regarding public figures
We all have our opinions, and certain public figures can be divisive. Keep in mind that this is a community for memes and light-hearted fun, not for airing grievances or leveling accusations. - Keep discussions polite and free of disparagement.
- We are never in possession of all of the facts. Defamatory comments will not be tolerated.
- Discussions that get too heated will be locked and offending comments removed. Β
Please report posts and comments that break these rules!
Important: never execute code or follow advice that you don't understand or can't verify, especially here. The word of the day is credibility. This is a meme community -- even the most helpful comments might just be shitposts that can damage your system. Be aware, be smart, don't remove France.
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
There is FOSS alternatives out there like Revolt or just plain old IRC which is good enough imo. The Discord bullshit is so annoying.
All chat programs are shit for long term accumulation of knowledge. Discord, revolt, IRC, they're all just as bad for it.
Forums are where you'll find people who are actual experts discussing because they want to be able to easily reference previous posts by other people.
Where's lemmy in regards to this?
Lemmy/Reddit style platforms are good at generating short term discussions, it's threaded chats.
The main features that makes forums the best to accumulate knowledge is bumping and linear discussions. There's only one discussion that everyone is following if they want to talk about a specific subject, the knowledge on that subject is centralized and keeps accumulating instead of requiring to be constantly repeated because the previous thread is lost to time. The linear discussion means you don't have to go back up and start reading a different branch to know what some other people are talking about (which often times leads to having many people basically saying the same thing without realizing it), all new replies appear in chronological order and people quote others to provide context when necessary.
Look on old school forums for more "boomer hobbies" and it's ridiculous how long conversations can keep going. I provided a link in another reply but the Yamaha WR250 thread on ADVRider has 428k replies since 2013, all that is possible to know about this motorcycle is in they thread and pretty much any question you might have will have its reply in there. There's car forums with discussions that have been ongoing for decadeS!
Meanwhile on Reddit of you want to ask a question in a thread that was started 24h ago you're shit out of luck, no one but the OP will know about it. On Lemmy? Everyone sorts by top 6 hours.
In regards to the advrider comment, I don't find those ridiculously long-running threads all that convenient even though they are very useful. In your example the WR250R thread could have multiple subtopics being discussed at once in the same thread which I find frustrating.
For example, one guy might ask about tires and while that's being discussed another guy shows up asking about a big bore kit to make more power. Now there are two discussions happening at the same time and all I can do is view the thread chronologically. Then someone else shows up asking what oil everyone uses. Then someone new joins and says "Hey it's not possible to go back and read through all 2300 pages in this thread, what GPS are you all using?"
Like sure it's great that all the information is in that one thread but navigating through it only in chronological order can be super frustrating.
ADVRider is more of a "motorcycles in general" community and they try to limit the number of "subcommunities" (the Wr250 thread is in the Thumpers subcommunity), but a WR250 specific forum would have the discussions you're talking about split up.
The real solution though would be for a "Reddit style forum" to exist, where people can create new subcommunities however they want but to have it work like a forum instead of having threaded discussions that don't get bumped.
we just need IRCv2 which should add chat history
How do you replicate a conversation like this in a IRC format?
https://www.advrider.com/f/threads/yamaha-wr250r-threadfest.936588/
IRC at least you have text logs, but I agree.
That's not the point. The point is that pointing to Discord means that there simply is no documentation.
I have been playing with the idea of a documentation.org. Something publicly funded (mostly through corporate and individual donations) that hosts technical manuals, white papers, guides, links to video tutorials (likely YouTube), FAQs, and even links to Discord and/or forums if they exist. Documents are public, free to index (no login to view), version controlled and held in perpetuity.
Obviously there is much more to it, but I think we have reached a point where something like it is required.
Aren't you basically describing readthedocs.io?
In the most technical terms, yes. The idea is not new or bizarre, but I see the same missteps repeated. For starters, the venture HAS to be a nonprofit with zero need for monetization. It will also need an inviting and easy to navigate user interface, accessible to the most nontechnical of users. You need to have a massive document library from multiple large players from day one, so you need to have a lot of contacts.
As I said it's not fully cooked, but I have spoken to a few people that could help me make it happen and they seemed open to it.
I only want the documentation if you have to fax it to me
Whatever, Mr. Stallman.
The very fact that you have to ask and wait for an answer is an inconvenience.
one time, I asked and got a reply that it has been answered already, followed by a rant of why the hell people were asking the same question over and over again. IDK man, maybe you could update the installation instructions in your readme, then people wouldn't be flodding discord with the same question over and over again.
(it was regarding the project being incompatible with the newest version of a library and you had to manually install an older version to get it to work)
Firstly, discord is entirely the wrong medium for documentation.
Secondly, documentation should be at least as accessible as the code. That is to say, if I can view the code without creating an account for some service, then I should also be able to read the documentation too.
Documentation is bad enough. But it's worse when that's the only channel to get support. I once read a project maintainer boast that they never read the bug reports and issues on github and if anyone had a bug to just chat him up discord. I mean, dude, no wonder nobody uses your software or takes it seriously. Much less want to collaborate on the development.
I can't understand why someone would want to do that. Maybe it's my help desk and IT upbringing, but for the few software tools and things I've made, if you chat me without filing a bug/issue on GitHub, I'm not gonna help you.
If the documentation is on discord, there is no documentation. Documentation has to be freely available, otherwise it doesn't count.
load more comments
(2 replies)
using discord for documentation is like using excel for a database
It's way worse. At least Excel lets you do database-like stuff. Discord is unusable for long-form posts or any info you want to keep long term.
still worse They own everything you write on discord
Yes, this exactly! I still cannot fathom how Discord took off. It offers literally no advantages over forums, and introduces some massive disadvantages.
It took off because it was objectively the best catch-all communication option for gamers at the time. It's still the best option for certain use cases like that, but I'll never understand why people prefer it for projects, troubleshooting, updates, etc. It seems incredibly lazy and unserious to me. And the current Discord mobile layout is absolutely horrible, making for a totally miserable user experience.
My office has official chat (teams) and unofficial chat (Mattermost).
I donβt think thereβs anything wrong with having a more casual discussion platform at work, which is what Mattermost had become.
I hated back in 2015 when people were leaving other communication platforms for the lesser option of Discord
Even today Discord still doesnβt have directional chat and you canβt be in multiple calls at once
At least mods help mask all the other missing features
At the beginning it originally had an appeal that anyone could create a voice chat server for free in a matter of seconds.
Teamspeak needed a hosted dedicated server. Skype was "calls" and not communities. Mumble was hardly known.
I completely accept why it took off but I hate where it has gone. it's over complicated and feature creeped electron shite
tbf discord is good for organizing activities in games with online multiplayer. definitely shouldn't be used for documentation in place of forums though.
Yea, I don't get the documentation stuff. It's like saying you'll use Google Chat history as your documentation.
You donβt see its incredible simplicity as an advantage? Thatβs crazy
load more comments
(10 replies)
Documentation is different from technical support and neither should be done on Discord.
There are so many tools to make documentation for your project. LATEX is a great one, and you can use it to easily host your documentation online. And it's really not difficult at all to do by hand. If you can have it on discord you can certainly have it in a repo.
Maybe it's a cynical ploy to increase community engagement with their project by getting them into the discord. Regardless, it gives me The Ick. Very gross.
I personally don't like LaTeX for documentation because it doesn't benefit much from advanced features of LaTeX, while being more difficult to read/write than Markdown.
Discord is great for building a community because it's the defacto chat service for communities. It replaced IRC and does that quite well. Having a place to casually chat with people more invested in the project has its advantages.
Now I really dislike it if they think discord can replace a wiki. Iirc discord added a wiki-like feature a while ago and it's terrible because it's not indexable by search engines.
load more comments
(2 replies)
How to install:
Step 1: git clone website
Step 2: run dependency install script
Step 2 again: Ha, ha, just kidding, that would be to straight forward. Please install this dependency installer program that only this and two other projects use. Pip grep panda cholotte poetry bash docker numpty anaconda jupternotebook alacazam. Oh, you don't have it? Well, I'm sure the project page will tell you how to install it and add it to path!
Step 3: Run " program name" and .... "insanely detailed description of what to do once the program opens"
Step 3 again: When you run it, get error "k*args passed null into program, so eat shit you can't fix this"
Step 4: Go to git hub issue page and see people have been complaining about this error for 6 months, but it was working back then when it's 12 dependency hadn't been updated yet. No fix incoming since the programmer was a chineese grad student that graduated 6 months ago and stopped working on the code.
This is why I like Docker. It's basically "works on my machine" as a service.
Similarly, I'm starting to really like dev containers. They're Docker containers with all the required dev tools already installed inside, and a config so that VS Code knows how to spin up a new container when you want to do dev work on the project. They use VS Code remoting - a VS Code server runs in the container and the regular VS Code desktop app connects to it.
I was recently dealing with a project that has some Ruby dev tools and it was 100x easier to deal with since they were using dev containers.
What the fuck happened to README.md.
Or man pages.
Or readme.txt.
Or a goddamn wiki.
best I can do is please react to the #roles channel with a β€οΈ to unlock the channel. what's that? you're looking for a fix to an issue you're having in an older and supported version of the app? well sucks for you and suck my d*** we've already deleted that channel a long time ago who needs that old info anyway
I think we fixed that for someone a few months ago, maybe you can scroll back and find it. I think the guys handle was user-something, might have been around May...
Reading this made me feel a bit of anxiety
view more: next βΊ