If it records to the cloud, it's not your footage. It can and will be acquired/distributed against your will.
this post was submitted on 17 Aug 2026
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Automated License Plate Readers (ALPRs) are AI-powered cameras that capture and analyze images of all passing vehicles, storing details like your car’s location, date, and time. They also capture your car’s make, model, color, and identifying features such as dents, roof racks, and bumper stickers, often turning these into searchable data points. These cameras collect data on millions of vehicles—regardless of whether the driver is suspected of a crime. While these systems can be useful for tracking stolen cars or wanted individuals, they are mostly used to track the movements of innocent people.
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For the most part this it’s true, although it’s possible to do it securely. Security cam footage stored in iCloud is end to end encrypted. Apple can’t access it.
I wouldn't bet on that.
E2E doesn't matter if you don't control the other end.
Yes. 100%. End to end encrypted means the decryption key is at the other end. Where Apple is.
If it were ACTUALLY secure you would have BOTH the encryption AND decryption keys and Apple would only have a useless, unreadable, encrypted binary blob.
They literally give you the keys. See Advanced Data Protection
So, it does say that not even Apple can read your data, but it also says it's protected by "end to end encryption", which if Apple can't read your data, is absolutely nonsense usage of the term.
"End to end encryption" means encrypting the data at one end, and decrypting it at the other end. That's literally the NAME. If they're not doing that, the term is completely nonsense to use. They might as well say they have fat-free encryption. What they're really doing is storing an encrypted file that you hold both keys for. And IF that's what they're doing, that's actually fantastic - far better than end-to-end encryption because only you can decrypt it. But they're not inspiring confidence by COMPLETELY misusing a term that has nothing to do with what they're doing.
The other point is, if those keys... if you have to manually copy those keys over between all of your devices? Great. You're actually protected. If, however, you just connect to your Apple account and now you can get your files out of iCloud? That means that Apple DOES have your decryption keys SOMEWHERE, because otherwise they couldn't send them to your other devices, which means, sorry, whatever they're promising, they DO have the ability to look at your files if they're motivated enough.
End to end means the ends you use it at, ot the server you’re imagining it ending up on.
In this case the “ends” are your devices.
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The fact that there are multiple seprate recovery options to regain access to your account and with it access to those encrypted backups is all the clue you need to know those keys are not stored only on your device.
Apple has access to those keys - whether they want to directly admit it or not.
"With Advanced Data Protection turned on, Apple doesn't have the encryption keys needed to help you recover your end-to-end encrypted data." it's literally on the page. If they have them, prove it, and launch yourself the most profitable lawsuit against apple possible. Otherwise you're just bring a grumpy fool.
Two things here. I'm not saying these are necessarily true, but they can be true.
-Apple could be lying.
-Apple could change their corporate policy on providing backdoor access for governments.
In the end, you are trusting a profit-seeking corporation to protect your data and conduct themselves in an ethical and honest way. They also had their phones built in factories where people threw themselves from the rooftop to escape the inhumane conditions. Just saying...
That could be true of literally any encryption you did not develop yourself and any os or hardware in the same lieu. Apple's implementation is legally binding and third-party verified. That's as good as you're gonna get with any operating system you don't entirely vet yourself, and no a third party linux distribution is not a os you manage yourself as governments local to the distrubuting party/management organization can require backdoors in even those.
In the end you are trusting other humans using their tools to do things you hope you understand but generally fully do not, so you must engage in a modicum of trust. This is just the great abstraction problem in any compute environment. Generally we base this on past or prior actions in combination with behaviors we can monitor or prove. Or should we talk about how pretty much every modern encryption scheme was minted by the NSA?... Just saying... Right that doesn't mean anything and I say that knowing I've got the loaded bullet of apple being the only corporate entity I'm familiar with to risk a public war with the US government by hosting this page despite gag orders while also refusing to implement said backdoors. https://www.apple.com/customer-letter/
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They literally say to store your Recovery keys in a safe place or you could get locked out of your account.
If you don't know your account password and have lost or otherwise don't have a trusted device, you need your recovery key to regain access to your Apple Account. If you can't provide your recovery key, you’ll be locked out of your account permanently.
Print a copy of your recovery key or write it down. Keep your key in a safe place, and consider storing a copy in more than one place. You can also give a copy of your recovery key to a trusted family member.
Don’t store your recovery key in your Apple Passwords app, iCloud Photos, Notes, or iCloud Drive. If you lose access to your Apple Account, you won’t be able to open these apps to find it.
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Nope! The only question that needs to be asked is: who manages the encryption keys?
If the answer isn't you, it isn't E2E encrypted.
The answer is you lol it’s end to end encrypted. You couldn’t do one google search before making some dumb assumptions?
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Idk why you're being down voted. With ADP enabled and using icloud secure cameras the data is encrypted by keys stored only on your local devices, Apple has no access to these keys and there are no recovery options through apple. If you lose all of your devices and your recovery code and your login information, the data is gone. This has been validated by independent third parties. It's also worth noting that apple still to this day hosts the only corporate "fuck you, we're encrypting it" public memo I've ever seen at https://www.apple.com/customer-letter/ .
I’m being downvoted because I dare say something positive about Apple. People don’t like that here.
Apparently and fr. I'm by no means an apple stan but let's give them shit for things they're actually guilty of instead of gaslighting ourselves with new bs.
Pretty much. There’s plenty to bitch out apple for. I don’t see why people can’t just stick to the facts.
Yeah, I remember several years ago they got a terrorists iphone and Bush tried to pressure Apple to give them access to the phone; Apple refused to cooperate. Good on them.
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I'm pretty sure the people who are sawing off flock cameras for the most part aren't the ones with ring cameras
I think the message is that we should be just as frustrated with ring cameras too, and not saying you should, but if they accidentally get smashed...
It amazes me how some people cant comprehend different mindsets existing in the same space. Especially coming from fucking europe
A quick search looks like the Roman empire at its peak was about half the size of the US. I don't think people recognize the absolute size of the US.
I mean, most people in urban areas agree generally, but even like city to city there are massive leaps in quality of education, climate, policy, social environment, etc etc that all shape how a person thinks and acts.
Right, but the very idea of “local culture” has been severely weakened. A guy in Alberta or Alabama are both the same annoying, stupid conservative with basically all the same opinions and crappy “jokes” despite the on-paper differences.
Yes, people are different and the people who hate Flock are highly unlikely(but not guaranteed) to be the same people. On the other hand, I would not be the least bit surprised if many people who are onboard with the Flock hate have no true idea why, and so still keep their Ring cameras because they think they’re different.
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I was watching a murder case on YouTube
An unknown phone number called the victim.
They saw it was a burner phone.
They have video of him buying the phone.
They have video of him walking around in different states.
They have video of him driving around in different states.
They knew where his real phone was at all times.
The video was uploaded 5 years ago.
USA is a crazy on surveillance.
Was this the one where the victim was his mom? If it’s the same one, it’s pretty insane
Yet they have no idea who abducted Nancy Guthrie 🙄
All this money and effort spent on catching people who commit crimes, but no money spent on raising people’s material conditions, which would actually prevent crimes.
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"Alexa, is constant surveillance a bad thing?"
Especially because if you truly want a doorbell camera there are other options. There’s even local only options!
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As your mail, mobile geolocation and plenty of other data.
The difference is that in flock case the system is “push” (flock alerts the police with their alerts real or due to bugs) while ring/gmail/mobiles is “pull” (police needs a warrant if you are an US citizen, it needs to be processed by the cloud provider, etc) and most crucially police needs to already know what is looking
Police don´t need a warrrant to get third party information for you UNLESS that third party refuses.
Guess what?
police need a warrant to view your camera specifically, but they absolutely do not need a warrant to request video from a ring camera stored by amazon. they just ask for it and amazon hands it straight over.
anyone got a source? I know they aren't a good idea but can police really access them?
They only mention recordings in response to warrants, but yes.
https://ring.com/support/articles/oi8t6/Learn-About-Ring-Law-Enforcement-Guidelines
Discovery gainst the company and I'm sure they have to produce your cloud saves.
if you watch true crime you'll see how they have footage from you from all kinds of stuff including doorbells.
the design of our house makes it where we can't see who's in the door through the windows and holiday reefs (idk if that's the right word, decorative things that go on the door) blocks the peephole :/
Wreaths?
Holiday reefs are way cooler though.
I tried to come up with a reason to justify a door camera. I couldn't.
If the doorbell rings, and I'm not expecting anyone, then I don't answer it. It doesn't matter to me who it is. I don't need to know.
Also, if I don't answer and it is someone I know, they can call me from my doorstep and let me know it's them.
If a package gets stolen off my doorstep, which has never happened, and doesn't happen much here at all as far as I know, the video is of zero use, unless I know who it is. Because, the cops sure don't know who it is, or even care to find out. You might think that's their job, but you'd be wrong. Their job is to take the report and file it. That's it.
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i think the big difference comes down to that flicks are put up by police departments and city governments, while ring cameras are put up by private citizens.
Like, they both do effectively the same thing, but, criticizing your neighbors for putting up a ring is self censored because people don’t want to come across as “preachy” or judging their neighbors. But no one has any hang ups about criticizing a town government.
I think the bigger issue is that people have not internalized that the companies behind these systems are the real problem, less the people conned in to implementing them.
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I thought ring started getting blockback even before the anti flock became popular.
Ring cameras can't grab license plates or track fast moving cars effectively. They can track slower moving pedestrians, but no one walks in america any way...
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