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cross-posted from: https://lemmy.world/post/34641538
What ?
Your shit is totally fucked already but I'm struggling to see a point at which some fediverse user having a gun would have averted the current predicament of US non-fascist citizens.
There are so many alternatives to the word "armed" in this sentence that would be a lot more effective: educated, informed, active... and so on.
People who think buying a gun will keep the menacing government from harming them have no idea how tanks work. Waco wasn't so long ago.
Waco is a good example but let me also bring up MOVE as well. Fred Hampton is also a good example.
Yeah, the US totally has the ability to lose a war in the straights while also sending tanks to multiple cities.
And the US totally rolled the taliban right? And Russias massive supply helped them soooooooo much against Ukraine right?
Do you fuckers pay attention? It would take 5% of the country being pissed off enough to throw the country into chaos.
Don't even get me started on how easy it would actually be to drone infrastructure with essential unlimited areas to move freely and stage some shit like that.
You need some workers refusing to work to throw a country in a chaos, the problem is organizing the workers tho
It amazes me people think this is realistic. (Not you, others)
People didn't get off the couch to vote, one of the simpler things they couldve done. You think they're buying guns and going toe to toe with the us military? Good lord.
You're right that 5% of people could disrupt the government.
However, achieving that 5% is no small feat. Keyboard warriors are not helpful, you need people to be ready and willing to sacrifice themselves for the cause.
Buying a weapon doesn't mean someone has joined the 5%. A far more meaningful recruitment strategy would be to join political groups.
It's not always about the government. Regardless of what happens in 2028, we're likely to have the American version of the The Troubles.
All you can do if the tanks roll in is haul ass, try to avoid flock cameras, and hope no one is looking for you specifically. But, when whatever paramilitary org is upset this week starts burning your neighborhood and the police decide they aren't going to do much about it, community defense becomes a viable option.
~~avoid flock cameras~~ Shoot down mas surveillance devices.
There, FTFY
You should tell that to Viet Cong guerrilla fighters. Tell it to Lenin and Mao. Or the Kurds or the Black Panthers or the 100s of Indian revolutionary cells that fought the British for over 100 years that made Gandhi's "peaceful" revolution work. Tell that to the Ukrainians today.
One person with a gun isn't a threat. But 10,000s such people are. And people that think tanks can stop a revolution haven't studied much history.
Lol you're an idiot if you think anyone is arming themselves to fight the US military. I'm worried about white Christian males. Sure the police state is a problem but I don't think anyone thinks they're going to that on a tank with a 9mm.
We get it, you've already given up and you want everyone else to give up also but don't straw man so hard
Not disagreeing, but there's a good chance somebody will snipe an ice agent and it will set the civil war in motion.
I don't want it, but it's starting to seem like that's the path we've taken.
Someone probably already has but the media won't show it, lest ICE be seen as fragile.
Yeah, that's certainly a possibility. My feeling is that you're not going to get a nice crisp revolution / civil war.
I think for that to happen you need to have a lot more people desperate enough to lay down their lives to win some kind of future for the people they care about.
It seems more likely you'll end up with an armed resistance movement.
You keep saying "you," where are you from?
Yeah, that’s certainly a possibility. My feeling is that you’re not going to get a nice crisp revolution / civil war.
I think for that to happen you need to have a lot more people desperate enough to lay down their lives to win some kind of future for the people they care about.
It seems more likely you’ll end up with an armed resistance movement.
Guns don't give much if any political power on their own, but if the hard groundwork of building up a community with strong mutual aid is done beforehand, they can be one part of protecting that community. ICE and cops are a lot less likely to mess around with visibly armed groups.
Oh, but guns do give 100% political power. It's the ability to do violence that guarantees your ability to live as you please or not. You just seldom see it in your safe little daily life. And the examples of that are all around you in this world.
It's the violence, by people willing to do violence or threaten violence, that allows you the right to vote or not. It is the violence or threat that allows you to marry who you want, live where you want, and enjoy the freedoms that you have.
You have two choices. You can either go to those people who are willing to do violence and beg for your scraps of rights, or you can be willing to do violence, and possibly die, back to those people who would take your rights away.
Which one you choose depends on just how desperate you are. Currently you are hoping that someone else will do the violence for you and then give you what you want. Your little life is still too safe and cozy to make you choose your path yet.
As were some of the groups in the Civil Rights movement. There was a group armed and trained by a black WW2 veteran that protected families from retaliation by the KKK for going to desegregated schools. Armed with rifles and machine guns, they would put sandbag emplacements on people's porches to ensure that their kids were safe throughout the night
United we stand, divided we fall
The "watchers" protected MLK's peaceful protest . Armed protectors.
Needed to prevent KKK from driving a truck or attacking the protest. Not part of protest but the KKK knew about it.
MLK gave the government a choice between MLK or Malcom X.
Guess who was chosen? Guess who is forgotten?
Okay, minorities have a gun. Now what?
Isn't that why it says "land of the free and the home of the brave"? You can't have the former if you don't do the latter.
Land of free enterprise for rich white men, home of the brave morons conned into dying for them.
Organize with a local group of like minded minorities. Suddenly, less of a minority
It's almost like organisation is what makes minorities harder to oppress, not guns.
It’s both actually, both are necessary
Organizing doesn't provide money for the NRA
They are both very valuable tools when facing a fascist regime with a monopoly on violence... take the history of the blck panthers as one example. The government was so afraid of them, they made new gun laws. Almost like education is about empowerment and legislation is about control. but you do you i suppose.
The gov brings out their APC.
If there is any correlation between private gun ownership and the human rights situation in a society, it's the opposite one.
Just to be safe, let's take the guns away from the cops and ICE first.
Finally, a good idea.
Violence when you're outnumbered and outgunned doesn't accomplish much and is a good way to end up dead.
Violence when organized in numbers can make a big difference. But then nonviolence in organized numbers can also make a big difference, and according to some historians and revolutionaries is statistically more effective.
But I get it that it's difficult to stay idly by when our fellow civilians are gunned down by regime paramilitary agents. So think of it this way:
COIN models are pretty consistent about winning hearts and minds, and everything ICE is doing is costing them exactly that: hearts and minds. It's why they've had to shift strategies from regional raids to scattershot surprise attacks. No matter how much it's spun by the social media propaganda machine, every death, every act of brutality (and for that matter, every release of how detainees are being abused and tortured) is losing them the war, the same way the Coalition of the Willing lost the International War on Terror.
For every Alex Pretti, dozens of bystanders become sympathists. For every Renée Good, dozens of sympathists become activists. For every Lorenzo Araujo or Joan Guerrero, dozens of activists become militants.
And that is according to pre-internet COIN theory, what we might expect in the 20th century. Nowadays, phone camera footage hits the internet in minutes, and spreads across the globe in hours, a phenomenon that informed how the Ferguson Unrest was received, or the 2020 George Floyd protests, or the 2021+ crisis in Palestine.
So it may not be merely dozens anymore. It may be hundreds.
During the German occupation of Paris in 1940, Germany required France to pay for the privilege of an occupying force, featuring financial shenanigans (sound familiar?) that depleted French resources, leading to food shortages and scarcity.
And then the garrison forces could not help but indulge in brutality. It quickly became too much for the common civilian to bear.
The early Résistants started small and scattered: Independent Parisians slashing tires, defacing propaganda posters, cutting phone lines. Service staff routinely spat in the food and drink served to occupying Germans. It would only take a couple of years before La Résistance formed into a formidable fighting force, and every French household was ready and willing to hide them away.
The resistance works the way that recycling aluminum does. One person doing their tiny part doesn't do much, but there are millions of us who are active, and plenty more who sympathize, and more still who are just pissed off at the bullshit. (Affordability, inflation, blatant corruption, the fucked up pointless elective war in Iran, election meddling, etc. It adds up.)
The big demonstrations are about visibility, it lets the resistance represent and do a headcount and remind ourselves we're not alone. But the real work is in crabbing at representatives, sabotaging Flock cameras, responding to ICE attacks, calling out MAGA misinformation, making sure neighbors are cool and fed, and so on.
Wash your hands regularly. Avoid shopping at Amazon. If your household gets a case of cyclosporiasis, report it.
It adds up.
And yeah, it's okay if it takes a while to find your place in the organized resistance. The Trump regime operated quickly so we haven't yet had time to fully shift gears. (The blitz has also made it impossible to adapt to the new norms, hence for some of us the Overton window is now offensive. Stephen Miller's they’re all deformed speech is channeling Joseph Goebbels directly)
For most of us, the effort might be very quotidian. A classic WWII era move was simply to hat-tip to the Jewish neighbors, which pissed off the Nazis.
If you're lucky (or unlucky) you find yourself in a position of opportunity, to take subversive action, and risk your liberty, possibly your life. In that case, bloc up, be safe, and don't get caught.
So do it, fight back... Luigi cannot be the only American with some balls.
Peace first, but make it clear that the sword is always an option should negotiations break down.
Or to Put it like Theodore Roosevelt: "Speak softly, but carry a Big Stick."
I want to get one but I want to take a class first. I've only gone to the range like 3 times and I want to make sure I'm really comfortable with the weapon before I carry it around. Meanwhile I have the knife but I can't find it atm so I just have my legs