Ask Lemmy

We will never have the truth in our entire lives. But! I kind of see how MJ could actually not be a pedo, but just a special flavor of weirdo.

Imagine that you are born into a family of 8 (2 came shortly after) that live in 2 bedroom home. Paretns are working class and an oppressed minority, so are you. At age 5 parents put you in a family band where they forced you to play and punished for mistakes made during rehearsals and performances. Time goes by. Your band becomes a sensation. You are the front man. You grow out of it and go solo. You are consistently the most famous artist. All eyes on you. Everyone knows each and every step you make, in tiny details.

All that while your childhood was spent never having own corner, never having time to play with other children. You are constantly performing everywhere. Your life is not like "the other kids".

Now you are famous as hell with a millions to your name. You can do pretty much anything. And you, of course, might get that feeling of wasted time that you probably can catch up with. You attempt to create a real Neverland, spend tons of time with children, try to make their lives magical and wonderful. You do things for childer that you've dreamed you'd like to have when you were a child yourself. BUT you are at the age of 30 and every one assumes that you diddle children. Which, again, might be true. We cant possibly deny false accusations in favor of getting rich by settlements. And that baby over the balcony didnt help either.

I, honestly, feel bad for him. Great musician, vocals are top notch and unmatched. Dancing moves out of this world. Great showmanship. Terrible personal life full of abuse, discrimination, specualtions, accusations, failed childhood. Poor guy. He was fucked up in head. Maybe not in pedofilic way. But he was certainly not fine. All that life experience plus super likely drug abuse since we are talking about show biz.

No. Biopics always are a watered down version of their real life. Ita basicly a "best hits of"

Those last two questions could easily be under a Chris Brown post. And he's still touring.

I have a friend who worked for, and alongside MJ (they’re credited on at least one album). They became a personal friend and have a ton of amazing stories and insane memorabilia. On the day Michael died, his phone rang and rang with a LOT of people wishing him condolences.

They tell me that MJ never really got a childhood, and in some ways lived his childhood through other children. My friend spent a couple nights at his Neverland ranch with his own kids and tells me that he trusted MJ and doesnt believe for a minute that he was actually guilty of anything untoward, and that things like “sleepovers” really did happen but were really from a place of innocence and MJ just wanting to have that childlike experience that he didn’t get.

"too woke" was invented by big sleep to sell more Zzzz...

I'm not seeing this movie because I'm not sure whether he was a child molester or not. There are rumours now that he actually protected kids from Epstein but I can't decide what to believe.

"too woke" is a term you really gotta pull out of your vocabulary. Not celebrating the life of a serial child predator isn't something that should make you feel self conscious. It's weaponized to make you sit down, shut up and not ask questions. Amplified by the same people who deserve the most scruntiy.

Honestly reading this was a bummer.

interesting that you should mention epstein because when macaulay culkin was interviewed about that a while ago he brought up mj. mac said that one time as a child, he was scheduled to go to epsteins island when jackson called out of the blue to ask if he wanted a tour of the neverland estate. since jackson was famous, mac and his agent went to neverland, and he and jackson apparently became friends. mac stressed that he had never even gotten a creepy vibe, just that michael genuinely liked children.

maybe this was entirely coincidental, i don't know. but there is a chance that michael knew about epstein in the 90s and tried to help people steer clear.

all i know is that culkin seems like a good guy. he's called out bad practices and abuse in the industry before, to his own detriment.

Edit: Apparently that interview was faked. bummer.

I have a theory about Michael Jackson. First, a little background for reference. I am not a fan of MJ or his music. I respect his talent and what he did with it, but it's not really my style. Also, I was a child when the accusations started. We all heard and told the jokes about him diddling little boys. I have no reason to root for or against Michael's innocence.

That being said, I don't think he did anything inappropriate.

I could totally be wrong. I wasn't there and I'm not going to claim that my theory is undeniable truth, but after watching a few of his interviews, I noticed that he never acted like he did anything wrong. I get that someone without remorse would act like that, but typically they know what they did was wrong, and they lie and sneak their way around any implication of involvement. Not MJ. When asked about his "sleepovers" he never denied them. He consistently said "Yes, I did invite them over for sleepovers. Yes, we often shared a bed. We would stay up late watching movies and fall asleep in the bed. That's what a sleepover is." It didn't feel like a predator denying abuse. It felt more like asking a ten year old how his sleepover went. They'd tell you honestly what they did, if they slept in the same bed, and wouldn't think anything was weird about it, because they're just kids.

Combine that with the abuse he suffered as a kid. His father treated those kids like a troop of trained dogs. Constantly practicing, constantly performing, always bringing in more money for the family. Michael was a superstar around age 6, and did not slow down until he was an adult, away from his dad and performing for himself.

I think that Michael Jackson never really grew up. He named his ranch Neverland, from the story of Peter Pan, the boy who never grew up. I think MJ felt like HE WAS Peter Pan. He had no childhood, and never developed like the rest of us. He was a 10 year old mind in the body of an adult. I don't think the amusement park in his backyard or the pet chimp were bait to lure children in, I think he just really wanted to live in an amusement park, race go karts, and hang out with like minded children like any insanely wealthy pre-pubescent boy would. Many of the children he hung out with have said that nothing happened, including Macaulay Culkin, who was his bestie for quite a few years. Even after MJ's death, he said "He never did anything to me. I never saw him do anything. And especially at this flash point in time, I’d have no reason to hold anything back. The guy has passed on. If anything - I’m not gonna say it would be stylish or anything like that, but right now is a good time to speak up. And if I had something to speak up about, I would totally do it. But no, I never saw anything; he never did anything."

Maybe I'm wrong, maybe Macaulay was groomed and helped MJ abuse other kids and cover it up, but I think Michael was just a emotionally undeveloped abuse victim trying to reclaim the childhood he never got to experience.

I wouldn't say "too woke" at all.

Not having met the man, though, I'm not at liberty to decide his guilt or innocence, how mature or simple he was, how platonic or pedophilic he was.

I'd always caution against unassailable certainty, but you decide your own safety level.

I don't think it's fair to compare Jackson to Epstein. Also, he has never been convicted, whereas Epstein was. I feel like "separate the art from the artist" applies and everyone has a different line for that. Like how people still support Polanski despite how despicable he is.

Well... Melania got a movie too, and she and her husband were both best friends with Epstein and Maxwell.

Michael Jackson was a complicated person. Extremely talented singer, songwriter, choreographer, dancer and performer from a very young age. Clearly had a strange relationship with his own race, age, and physical features. Clearly had a difficult time relating to people in a normal human way. Had a well-known child-like personality. A lot of rumors and allegations around him, and he did a lot of extremely questionable and problematic things that if nothing else, poured a lot of fuel on that particular fire. Fucked up his body with plastic surgery. Died of a doctor-supervised overdose...

What I'm getting at is that a film is about telling a story, and I do think Michael Jackson had a fascinating life story with a lot of highs and lows. I'm not sure that he's comparable to Epstein, and even if he was, I think that it depends how the film portrays him and his life.