Welcome to Political Humor!
Rules:
I mean, the USA was pro-Nazi until Pearl Harbor, and even then it took a propaganda campaign by the government to convince the American public to oppose Hitler.
Those Nazis were, by the way, inspired by the USA. Eugenics programs in North Carolina inspired later eugenics programs in Hitler's Germany. Jim Crow was seen as a textbook example of how to use the legal system to enforce racial dominance, and was named pretty directly by Hitler as an inspiration.
Fun? fact, Hitler supposedly had a portrait of Henry Ford behind his desk!
Yeah. It’s amazing how much a few Hollywood movies can create such a big reality distortion field and make people believe that not only the United States was anti-Nazi (it wasn’t) but also that they where the ones winning the war (they weren’t).
History gets written by the winners.
Yeah, America was super into the Nazis before WWII. Many businesses leaders dealt directly with Hitler.
It's crazy how people have forgotten. The Hindenburg was even a Nazi air ship but that never gets mentioned along with that tragedy.
Literally a rally at Madison square garden, which was just recently repeated.
More people need to know that Prescott Bush, Fred Trump, and Joe McCarthy were all unapologetic nazis.
Even the US declaration of war against Japan specifically mentioned how we were only going after Japan as retaliation and that we wished to remain friendly with Germany.
The mainstream Western portrayal of the US as anti-Nazi or anti-fascist is one of the most successful propaganda campaigns in modern history, right up there with Napoleon being short. Like, what do y'all think America was doing before, during and after WWII?
I mean if you don't read about any Central or South American country, or the Middle East as a whole, or South Eastern Asia, or Native Americans, or Japanese People during WWII, or Black People, the US is actually pretty great!
The Soviet Union did far more than the US to put down the Nazi movement and honestly I feel like even back then we weren't super invested in getting rid of fascism
The western powers were far more anti-communist than they were anti-fascist. Not everyone knows that they directly intervened in the Russian civil war years before the rise of Nazism to try and topple the new Bolshevik government.
WW2 was just a temporary pause while both sides dealt with Germany.
The Allies of WW2 were more a "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" kind of deal. That's why the alliance started to fall apart the moment the common enemies were close to being defeated.
Don't worry, the Soviets weren't super invested in it either, until it actually threatened them
What should they have done and why wasn't it enough what they suggested?
Not helping Nazis invade Poland would be a start
What does that mean for you? What do you include?
They didnt. They entered poland when polish govt has already fled and they did so to create buffer between nazi germany and soviet union.
Poland had invaded soviet ally Czechoslovakia.
They had planned this (in cooperation with Nazi Germany) quite some time before, and even put it in writing.
The secret accords of the Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact haven't been much of a secret for quite a long time, I wonder if you just missed that well known fact, or are omitting it on purpose.
No, the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact was not an 'alliance'
The Molotov-Ribbentrop pact was an non-aggression agreement signed between the USSR & Germany in late August 1939. (Alot of countries signed various pacts with nazi germany beforehand).
This agreement was a direct result of the failure to create 'collective security' in Europe The USSR had tried this and failed due to the irrational anti-communism of Poland & the unwillingness of the UK & France to make this a reality
A non aggression pact with secret accords that divided up Eastern Europe into spheres of influence for land grabs, as you conveniently omit once more.
Again it happened AFTER the west rejected proposal of soviets to ally against nazis. Any newly formed country dont want war, ideology is secondary. Hitler was vehemently anti communist and both hitler and stalin hated each other.
There is evidence that the Spheres of Influence did not refer to any partition or invasion, according to General Franz Halder's diaries. He says that Hitler was considering independence for Western Ukraine, although the USSR's 'spheres of influence' fell in Western Ukraine.
So, this provides evidence that the Secret Protocol was not about 'invading' nor 'annexing' anyone, in this case, Poland. It also provides evidence that Hitler was prepared to negotiate over Western Ukraine with the Poles, and not the USSR. In further entries, Halder repeats that the Germans are discussing the formation of an independent Western Ukraine Additionally, Halder suggests that the USSR expected a negotiated settlement would leave a 'rump' Poland.
This provides substantial evidence that the 'Spheres of Influence' was not abut the 'invasion' nor 'annexation' of any territory. The secret protocols merely mean that Germany is not allowed to extend itself beyond a certain LINE in Poland.
Poland had invaded soviet ally czechoslovakia prior to that and no one bats an eye on it. Soviets entered poland after polish govt had fled i.e. they entered poland when nothing like poland existed.
Not to forget britain was planning to invade soviet union after WW2 because soviets had made the greatest sacrifices and were weakened so Churchill wanted to destroy communism once and for all.
Isn't it quite obvious? Having a government that's not as utterly abhorrent and disagreeable as that of Josef Stalin is quite possible, even if you are a one party dictatorship. Likewise not having imperialist ambitions is utterly possible.
On top of that, especially since the Soviet Union anticipated that Nazi Germany would turn on them at some point, reacting to that becoming a fact more quickly and decisively could have helped. Stalin was so hell bent and stubborn about not provoking Hitler at any cost, that defensive action was practically forbidden even until for quite some time after the invasion had started. His purges of the military (partially instigated by Nazi German military intelligence to weaken the Soviet Union) didn't help with defence either. But I guess that's all symptoms of Stalinism. If you have a megalomaniac paranoid autocrat who has practically anyone who disagrees with him shot, you get that kind of a dysfunctional shitshow as a state.
Likewise not having imperialist ambitions is utterly possible.
USSR was about global socialism. How could they be non imperialistic? But then, is it imperialism to spread socialism?
Stalin was so hell bent and stubborn about not provoking Hitler
There were three spheres of power, two of which hoping the other two would fight each other. As Tolc mentioned, the USSR tried to create an alliance. After that failed which other options were left?
socialism
Under Stalin, yes, of course. That's almost as unhinged as people claiming Hitler was socialist because he had "socialist" in his party's name.
which other options were left?
Preparing to defend against Nazi Germany without the land grabs in Eastern Europe?
socialism
They didn't amass riches for an elite and didn't build their country on racial superiority. That's closer than most to socialism.
without the land grabs in Eastern Europe?
The Curzon Line was a proposed demarcation line between the Second Polish Republic and the Soviet Union, two new states emerging after World War I.
The line became a major geopolitical factor during World War II, when the USSR invaded eastern Poland, resulting in the split of Poland's territory between the USSR and Nazi Germany roughly along the Curzon Line in accordance with final rounds of secret negotiations surrounding the Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curzon_Line
Why is it a land grab if that was the start?
Preparing to defend against Nazi Germany without the land grabs
The "land grabs" happened after Germany started conquering. The preparations had to be made before.
I am no expert at all so please correct me if I am wrong but I think that only the SU made suggestions for, as Tolc mentions, "collective security". What else should they have done?
They singlehandedly liberated germany and defeated the nazis. What kind of alternate history are you guys smoking over there?
Oh you wouldn't believe the propaganda bullshit we get taught in K-12 here. Pretty sure that's why politicians (mostly republicans, but not invariably) vilify higher education and ensure it remains prohibitively expensive; wasn't til college that I learned that a good portion of my history classes growing up had, at best, shown only the American (or, in the case of US history, the white male American) side of the story, and at worst, been almost entirely fucking fabricated. "No no no, the Civil War was about states' rights, not slavery" lookin ass. Honestly "we saved the world from Nazis because we're just such kewl dudes" isn't even the biggest bridge they sold us.
I mean I get the point, but the meme didn't say anything about "singlehandedly"
I assure you every single person in the US who thinks anything remotely close to that picture actually believes the US single handedly saved the world from the Nazis.
I think the point is that the americans view themselves like that, generally, and thus the change is startling
the accuracy of the first statement is irrelevant, their belief in it is relevant
You mean importing scientists and workforce into the US.
See Wernher van Braun
Hell yea. We liberated them Nazis straight into NASA. Fly me to the moon baby! Next is Mars!
i wonder whether there's a causal connection
like, for the original genocide when white europeans settled america i can see it, because they literally took the land away. but for mars? it's not as if there's any life on mars to begin with ...
anyways, i'm all for sending nazis to outer space; we don't need them here.
The thing is that you can still try living off the grid on Earth. That wouldn't be possibile on Mars, thus linking productivity and the right to exist even worse than on Earth.
yeah, Mars is gonna be the next America: ultra-capitalistic hellscape
they also had significant amount of nazi sympatheziers too, so not so much as fighting them,
And Germany went from committing genocide on Jewish people to defending Jewish people committing genocide, progress!
Victims are slightly browner this time so it's ok /sarcasm
it took way less than 85 years; you're just noticing now.
The US didn't fight Germany for ideological differences.
"liberating germany from nazi"
nope, soviet union did it
...and - after a communist intermezzo - went full-on fascism too. Same shit, different asshole.
bla bla bla
liberalism is fascism
Aww, did I hurt your fээliиgs?
I dont take liberal seriously
Something, something, flat circle, something, something, hundred years.