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Why Only Humanoid Aliens… (piefed.social)

submitted 2 days ago by GreatWhite_Shark_EarthAndBeingsRightsPerson@piefed.social to c/startrek@startrek.website

45 comments fedilink hide all child comments

…’Star Trek’ everything (TV-Movies) only has aliens that are in humanoid shape, makes no sense to me. Scientifically we cannot think, if we start, eventually, space exploration that all the life we come into contact with will come in humanoid shape. Why the BLANK did not ‘Star Trek’ everything creators not think of this? The first three TV series figured this out, but since then everything I have seen has only Humanoid shape aliens.

*- I am not saying we will ever be able to explore space, it has already scientifically proven that space particles can be blocked from going right through astronauts bodies & long term will cause serious damage.

The scientific American published article said, the science proved that the dangerous effect will be on their brains & causing effects like Alzheimer.

all 47 comments

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[–] GreatWhite_Shark_EarthAndBeingsRightsPerson@piefed.social 1 points 15 hours ago* (last edited 13 hours ago) (1 children)

I think it would be a good time to summarize the answers from repliers I have received, which I appreciate, when the answered why the series after the first 3-series. Plus my quick thoughts on the answers, I do not think I missed any, It is going to be very general, not as detailed some might want.

Cost of doing non-humanoid shape aliens, but since we talking advancing technologies after ‘The Next Generation’ lowering costs & series like the very next series in ‘Deep Space Nine’ starting-existing on new & cheap networks, like ‘Deep Space Nine’s starting on ‘Paramount’ owned ‘Viacom’ & rest of existence on ‘UPN’. These networks are NOT going to spend money & resources on the series, even if they brought it about, if they are NOT getting the audience ratings. Wait, wait & wait a sec. here I have add a huge addition to my above comments, cannot believe I did not think of this first-time, The Networks will also cancel or put a lot pressure on programming that not fit their politics-political messaging. Network censorship caused?

Time it takes to do that effects to have non-humanoid shaped aliens, but again advancing technologies lowers the time factor as well & depends upon what networks are willing to accept.

Complexity of communicating with rest of crew & Etc., but I think of the movie ‘Contact’ solving the very problem. Plus they all have universal translators,

Complexity of manipulating the machines involved in the space travel, but ‘Star Trek’ series like ‘Enterprise’ already have had aliens that are not able to traditionally, by our biases, manipulate the machines are still able to manipulate the machines. Example of ‘Enterprise’ has regular aliens that can only live in liquid/water. The original series had aliens that did not even need spaceships, let alone manipulating machines.

There were series that have had non-Humanoid Shaped aliens, but they are few & far between or not important characters or that last past a episode or two.

Last one, I am going to introduce myself, because I have the feeling that some repliers believe it is at least a factor- SciFi audience is not ready to not see themselves/humanoid shaped in almost every single Being in a ‘Star Trek’ series. My response is simple & equally serious, I have a lot more faith in The SciFi & ‘Star Trek’ audiences. I think they would not only accept at least some of the characters, especially some main characters, being of non-Humanoid Shaped, but they would love it & reward the series that does it.

[–] ValueSubtracted@startrek.website 1 points 15 hours ago (1 children)

I have a small correction to what you've been told: like TNG before it, DS9 was syndicated. The first series to be exclusive to UPN was Voyager. That doesn't mean cost isn't a relevant issue, though.

[–] mrnarwall@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

There are a few examples of non humanoid species in Star Trek. There is the gas being and the tholians in TOS. And the Sheliak from TNG. Those come to mind, but I'm sure there are others

[–] GreatWhite_Shark_EarthAndBeingsRightsPerson@piefed.social 0 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Repliers (like yourself) keep missing this part of my post that started this thread- “The first three TV series figured this out”. So yes, I already knew about The Original Series (which is what I think of, when I think of the first three ‘Star Trek’ series with in non-humanoid aliens), ‘The Animated Series’ & ‘The Next Generation’ use of non-Humanoid aliens.
Some repliers also keep missing the rest of that sentence of my post that started this thread- “, but since then everything I have seen has only Humanoid shape aliens.”, when they keep sticking only to the first three series.

[–] cuchi@startrek.website 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

We need more cubes and circles like "Of Gods and Angles" episode of Star Trek Lower Decks.

[–] GreatWhite_Shark_EarthAndBeingsRightsPerson@piefed.social 1 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

I never watched that, because cartoon.

I guess, maybe, I should just watch the cartoon, because of what your reply indicates.

[–] NigelFrobisher@aussie.zone 6 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Because they don’t have the Jim Henson Workshop on the production.

[–] GreatWhite_Shark_EarthAndBeingsRightsPerson@piefed.social 2 points 2 days ago

LOL, I loved Jim Henson’s work!

[–] EarMaster@lemmy.world 9 points 2 days ago (1 children)

The in-universe reason is explained in TNG's The Chase.

The reason from a production point of view is obviously money. It is easier and cheaper to have humans with some hair and makeup instead of a totally alien creature. Today the price tag is manageable, but in the 60s and even in the 80s it was not a thing you would do for a regular cast member.

[–] GreatWhite_Shark_EarthAndBeingsRightsPerson@piefed.social 1 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

I hear you, on the money, but they did do it repeatedly, in the first of two-series (original & TNG), when it came to enemies-challenging encounters. How expensive is it to have cloudy body wise Beings? Use computers, done
I was not just thinking of crew member(s),
Never heard it put it that way- >The in-universe reason ,

[–] EarMaster@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (3 children)

I am sorry but I have trouble understanding what you were trying to say.

In the early nineties a single transformation shot of Odo cost at least 10.000$ depending on the complexity maybe even more. But even more it took weeks to complete. Even then it was just not possible to do this for every episode. In the 60s such an effect would have been nearly impossible to create because technology wasn't ready yet.

There were of course other effects and maybe the use of puppets would have been possible (think of Yoda in Star Wars or some decades later ALF on TV), but it would have limited the sets or required specialized construction. The living room set for ALF was raised up so the puppeteer playing ALF could go under the floor and play the puppet for closeups when the use of a costume was not possible.

Special effects like the ones you are thinking of were expensive - the absence or novelty of computer generated imagery made these time consuming and incredibly complicated.

[–] Repelle@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

think of Yoda in Star Wars or some decades later ALF on TV

Not a big deal, but in curious when you think both of those were made, Alf was 9 years after a new hope, and 3 after return of the Jedi.

[–] EarMaster@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I was referring to the original Star Trek, but you're right my phrasing was wrong.

[–] Repelle@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago

Ohhhh yes, that makes perfect sense, thanks!

[–] GreatWhite_Shark_EarthAndBeingsRightsPerson@piefed.social 1 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

No I obviously was not thinking the ‘90s technology was available; talk confusing writing.

I was thinking, since all I have heard was it is too expensive, that they should just use The ‘60s’ technology to do it. This might sound interesting, considering I was talking about using ‘60s’ technology , but the puppets idea seems childish or is just outdated.

[–] GreatWhite_Shark_EarthAndBeingsRightsPerson@piefed.social 0 points 1 day ago

Also remember ‘Deep Space 9’ was on a brandnew channel-UPN, that ran out of resources given to the series, when it did not high big with viewers, source from the documentary’The Center Seat’. Had the huge & established channel taken on the series, then expenses you mentioned might not been an issue at all.

[–] justdaveisfine@piefed.social 10 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (2 children)

Would you watch a show where humans meet oyster shaped aliens who vibrate to communicate and who get excited by vocal notes that are B flat and get enraged by succulent plants? That's plausibly alien right? How about every episode 20+ times a season, some new totally alien thing every time? (Sorry for the ridiculous example alien, in my defense I am very tired)

Humanoid emotions/body language and motives make for generally easier to understand stories that are more compelling.

You could not ask philosophical questions or have difficult plot decisions without having some common ground in logic/rationality/motives.

[–] GreatWhite_Shark_EarthAndBeingsRightsPerson@piefed.social 2 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

Yes, obviously, to all what replied with. Realism matters,
I know you are blowing way out of portion, how hard it would be for media script writers & the audiences.

Really, the question should be flipped & ask why you do not want obviously realism, that scientist have long believed?

You think I had not already thought of that? Let me inform you of whom you exchanging with, that relates to above question:

I have language processing challenges,
Former educator, Degreed is SLD & had achieved certifications in ESE & PE,
I am a person who has people close to me that are fluent in sign language. Only fluent, so they can talk to people who have physical challenges in communicating.
&
Most importantly, starting to write a SciFi set of stories-comic books-movies scripts, that involves space exploration.

[–] GreatWhite_Shark_EarthAndBeingsRightsPerson@piefed.social 1 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

Not only that, but

As I mention before the First-2-‘Star Trek’ series,

‘Star Wars’ (famous & bad character) did it

in Seth MacFarlane’s ‘The Orville’ there is a famous comedic actor (I forget his name) playing a blob shaped alien crew member, who regularly appears in the episodes.

[–] veeesix@lemmy.ca 4 points 2 days ago (1 children)

in Seth MacFarlane’s ‘The Orville’ there is a famous comedic actor (I forget his name) playing a blob shaped alien crew member, who regularly appears in the episodes.

RIP Norm Macdonald

[–] GreatWhite_Shark_EarthAndBeingsRightsPerson@piefed.social 1 points 2 days ago

Thank you, that is his name. Yeah, unfortunately he did die,

[–] roofuskit@lemmy.world 3 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

Money. Sci-Fi like Star Trek is not about accuracy, it's a cover to tell interesting stories about us and the world we live in. The amount of Scientific hand waiving in Trek will give you an aneurysm if this point upsets you.

[–] GreatWhite_Shark_EarthAndBeingsRightsPerson@piefed.social 0 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

About the money answer, see my response to EarMonster, who brought-up money as well. You need to adjust that perspective, ‘Star Trek’ was supposedly all about accuracy, according to ‘The Center Seat’ ‘Star Trek’ documentary.
Most of scientific stuff in the series is just way over my head.
With that being said, sometimes they have been so far into the future, do not know why they go to the extents of being in contact with NASA & other scientist, to help them be connected today’s science. No one could argue that it is crazy things, when they that far in the future.

[–] HubertManne@piefed.social 2 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Some have argued that evolution would always favor bipedal, bilateral symetry basic humanoid shape. It the fewestlimbs. it allows for a broad ability to interact with the environemnt. height for looking around. at least for terrestrial. its kinda unclear if an aquatic species could progress without fire and such.

[–] GreatWhite_Shark_EarthAndBeingsRightsPerson@piefed.social 2 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Others have claimed they would lose all limbs, because not needed in space.

its kinda unclear if an aquatic species could progress without fire and such

What?

[–] HubertManne@piefed.social 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

much of our technology has required burning things. This is how power was create and elements isolated and such. washing in liquids becomes problematic to. I mean I don't see why limbs are not needed to engage in controls. I guess over very long times you could lose the legs but only if generations were born and raised in space for a very long time. Its still and advantage to have them working for locomotion just not as much of one. Of course that gets into the species not really evolving once they reach a certain technological level and can compensate for deficiencies. Its about evolving to a level to get to certain tech level.

[–] GreatWhite_Shark_EarthAndBeingsRightsPerson@piefed.social 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

That is from our land loving species perspectives.

[–] HubertManne@piefed.social 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

fair enough but its not like its hur dur. air breathers da best breathers. Which ironically some of the most advanced marine species surface to get air but you have the octopi obviously. Its a question of physics. Few things burn under water and water tends to disperse things in an osmotic way. Our ancestors could find fire and utilize it in the environment long before they learned how to generate it. Its not just about power but about smelting and shaping. I mean a sci fi writing can someone envision the species using bioelectricity like from eels but then how do you make the conductive wire. Maybe you use a liquid conductor but now you have to have it contained and you can dip into the biology trough again but the species will need to make rockets to get off their planet as some point. You can of course use immense timescales with someone making bio computers or such figuring out some sort of antigrav lift but you have to stretch more and more to get to that.

[–] GreatWhite_Shark_EarthAndBeingsRightsPerson@piefed.social 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

There had been water based Beings, never leave water, in I think The Star Trek’s series was named ‘Enterprise’ that had enemy that never left water. Plus your points,

[–] HubertManne@piefed.social 1 points 19 hours ago (1 children)

oh yeah. certainly trek and other sci fi have had it but it tends to involve a lot of hand waving or much easier have them be amphibius.

[–] GreatWhite_Shark_EarthAndBeingsRightsPerson@piefed.social 1 points 19 hours ago* (last edited 19 hours ago) (1 children)

Not a problem if done after the 1st three Star Trek series-now, & that was the point to starting this thread. We are exchanging over nothing, to put it nicely.

[–] HubertManne@piefed.social 2 points 18 hours ago (1 children)

I mean yeah. If its not a discussion around why humaniods are seen often or if that would be the case if we ever did actually reach the stars then my apologies. I mean the writers have to decide how much to do hard type science fiction or science fantasy. Obviously the replicators and holograms take the technology so far its in the science fantasy level but often they seemed to otherwise want to keep it tight. I apologize again becasue I thought you were more asking trek only uses humanoid (or mostly only does) and why would that be.

[–] GreatWhite_Shark_EarthAndBeingsRightsPerson@piefed.social 1 points 16 hours ago

Maybe, I was too quick & tough with last reply, sorry. I just have gotten tired of too many, one is too many, repliers bogging down the discussions within the first 3-series (the original-Animated Series-The Next Generation) when clearly the post starting this thread clearly asks- Why does the Star Trek series (after the first 3; starting with ‘Deep Space 9’) only has humanoid shaped aliens?

[–] ValueSubtracted@startrek.website 4 points 2 days ago (1 children)

They did address this to an extent, way back in TNG's "The Chase" - the TL;DR is that most sapient life in the galaxy was seeded by an ancient race, and therefore have some common ancestry. This was expanded upon somewhat in Discovery's fifth season.

[–] GreatWhite_Shark_EarthAndBeingsRightsPerson@piefed.social 1 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (2 children)

the TL;DR

What?

I never watched ‘Discovery’,

[–] ValueSubtracted@startrek.website 1 points 2 days ago (1 children)

The majority of the lore comes from the TNG episode - the Discovery season mostly deals with a hunt for the Progenitors' lost technology, with the main revelation being that the Progenitors had found it, not invented it, so the original life-giving entities remain unknown.

[–] GreatWhite_Shark_EarthAndBeingsRightsPerson@piefed.social 1 points 2 days ago (1 children)

So you are saying, I should rewatch ‘TNG’s The Chase episode, over Discovery’s 4th season?

[–] ValueSubtracted@startrek.website 1 points 2 days ago

I would, yes - it's got the majority of the info.

[–] usernamefactory@lemmy.ca 1 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

It you enjoy realistically inhuman aliens, I do recommend you check out season 4 of Discovery. The season long arc involves probably the most difficult and problematic first contract scenarios Star Trek has had.

[–] GreatWhite_Shark_EarthAndBeingsRightsPerson@piefed.social 1 points 2 days ago (1 children)

It you enjoy realistically inhuman aliens encounters, I do recommend you check out season 4 of Discovery.

I tried to watch ‘Discovery’, but did not like it after a few 1-season episodes.

The season long arc involves probably the most difficult and problematic first contract scenarios Star Trek has had.

Just make sure we are on same wave length, I was only saying there needs to be more non-humanoid shaped aliens. NOT just tough first or repeated encounters with humanoid shaped aliens. I will give season 4 a try.

[–] usernamefactory@lemmy.ca 1 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

I understand, but I feel like they go together as part of a realistic alien encounter. These aliens both look and act different. They don’t register “us” as life forms, there’s a full episode devoted to figuring out how they communicate, fun stuff like that.

[–] GreatWhite_Shark_EarthAndBeingsRightsPerson@piefed.social 1 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Okay, I gotcha on what you mean, but on the parts beyond just appearance is that not what all ‘Star Trek’ have done at one-episode or another?

[–] usernamefactory@lemmy.ca 2 points 2 days ago (1 children)

It’s not totally unique for sure, there are similar examples like TNG’s Home Soil. But all too often we have situations like Voyager being on the other side of the galaxy and the universal translator just working.

[–] GreatWhite_Shark_EarthAndBeingsRightsPerson@piefed.social 2 points 1 day ago

That is a great point, I never thought of. What huge logical hole. I just couple nights watched the original, where they explained how a device a NONHUMANOID ALIEN created it’s own translator.