Do it Canada! Purchase the SAAB and your pilots will have more seat time. The F-35 is a maintenance pig.
this post was submitted on 20 Nov 2025
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Gripen is a great jet for Canadian requirements.
If I remember correctly, Saab has even offered to have the jets built.in Canada.
You do remember correctly. It's part of SAABs strategy, and if I remember correctly, there were also talks about Canada building their global eye AWAC
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(2 replies)
JK, fuck American tech
Why doesn't Canada design and build its own fighter jet?
Yeah, that's kinda like asking your mechanic neighbor "why don't you design and build your own car". Sure with enough time and money somebody could do this but it's likely to cost more, take longer, and have issues that an experienced producer has already come across and accounted for.
It requires a massive investment in research and development of advanced aerodynamics, material science, supply chain, skilled mechanics, etc. You just don't pop out a plane from a group of engineers like we did during WW1. Creating a fighter jet that is capable enough to defend against today's adversaries will require a couple decades of investment to start from scratch. And yes I know you probably think that we can just use the knowledge already available from previous fighter jet programs like older American jets but even if they had de-classified designs they still don't have the supply chain and technical experts to pull it off in a few years.
I don't think 20 years is enough especially for countries without the experience to fall back on. Not counting licensed builds. Engines and materials science. Also all the software. Digital and analog instruments. Modern fighters operate in connection with ground data links, satellite data links, other partner aircraft data links. All incredibly expensive and time consuming to develop
Countries with experience in Europe are all trying to partner up because of the financial costs and different part specialities for a 6th gen fighter and mockups make them look more like they'd be a gen 5.5 and they're pretty much all targeting ~2035 operationally when serious planning started between 2015-2020. I would not bet on any of the gen 5+ being operationally ready for serial production by 2035.
Why redesign the wheel when we can build the wheels our allies designed? And I don't mean our former allies to the south. I wouldn't want to import Gripens, but it would be fantastic if we started building them here
I don't think I can understate just how ridiculously expensive it is to start up your own jet fighting industry from basically scratch.
In the entire world, there are only 5 countries that produce fighter jets. USA, Sweden, France, China, Russia.
Look at Sweden over here punching above its weight class!
(going strictly by population size)
We tried once. Our government lacks vision sometimes.
We should bring back the program! And in the name of true Canadian patriotism, I vote we call it the Avro Lavigne.
Giant waste of money. Much smarter to buy a product someone else already wasted all the money to develop. Current-generation fighter jets are incredibly complex, Russia can't even figure out how to mass-produce one at all, even before the sanctions, and they're a very militarized state. Why spend 5x as much to develop something worse than what they can just buy?
What Canada really needs is a massive drone program. Drones from the size of a 747 to the size of a dime, and everything inbetween. The entire Russia-Ukraine war is a drone war.
Will require a lot of research and developement and spending and i am not ready to sacrifice services for it
Why dump more resources into something, that you don't need to, because there's a very serviceable option already prepped for sale?
Try searching Google with "f-35 sales before:2024-11-01". Countries were lining up to buy them. Boeing had a years long manufacturing backlog.
No matter how you, personally, feel about the F-35 and the US military-industrial complex, Trump wants to both increase exports in general and tout US military strength. Most of NATO running with the F-35 would have been great for both of those. He could have succeeded at it by doing nothing. Complete failure of his own goals.
Lockheed Martin. Boeing makes the F18 (for example)
I hope we snub those unhinged fash. Fuck them.
And the Gripen will be built here in Canada!!!!
To be fair, we've manufactured a lot of parts for other country's F35s so far. That's quite standard for defense contracts. Still, if Saab commits to bringing more guaranteed manufacturing jobs than the F35 program, it could be worth it. If this gives us a leg up in F35 manufacturing bids, that could also be worth it. Feels like a strong play regardless of outcome.
As a Linköping native, I can tell you right now how this is going to go down.
Saab will offer a really sweet deal including Canadian factories that can produce everything that Sweden makes for the Gripen. It will be on a short timeline and a good price. Canada will be locked in to help co-design the next generation of Swedish fighters.
Canada will use this as leverage against the USA. Then the USA will finally set their foot down and tell Canada in no uncertain terms that if they buy Gripen they'll get locked out of various US weapons systems indefinitely and end up on the US's shit list. But if they stop their ridiculous outburst they can get on the shortlist for some really cool destructive toys.
Also, aren't we all supposed to be one team America, you me and Mexico, guy?
Canada will most likely cave and Gripen will have fulfilled its role as a bargaining chip. I wouldn't even blame Canada, this is how it's gone down almost every time in the past 30 years and Canada has much better reasons than most to keep on the US's good side.
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I hope they do it. Maybe the arms manufacturers will turn on Trump when they start losing trillion dollar clients.
Now that the US is sending them to Saudi, how secure will they be from investigation by foreign adversaries?
Plus, the entire supply chain system of relying on the US for software and hardware updates, having to physically send the planes to the US for maintenance, all while the US continues to talk about annexing us is completely fucking bonkers.
Even without the annexation threats the setup would be stupid.
I know it’s a fancy and advanced plane, but knowing how the US military industrial complex works I’m pretty sure you’re paying a high multiplier for no reason too.
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(11 replies)
I fucking hope so
There is unfortunately a lot of nuance here.
A Gripen does not do the same things that an F35 does.
Europe simply does not have an answer to 5th or 6th generation fighters and I feel like wanting to be supporting of peoples respective countries and acknowledging the US being pretty awful right now is making people unwilling to acknowledge this glaring and incredibly important fault in western arms manufacturing outside of the US.
Humans benefit greatly when people, groups etc, specialize as less resources need to be wasted reinventing the wheel, but when it comes to defence, the current situations shows how flat footed CANZUK+EU* has been left by allowing the US to basically become the single source for some of the most crucial defence items.
Projects like FCAS need to cut the bureaucratic bullshit and speed up development as its increasingly obvious that the US is not a stable partner. CANZUK+EU* despite years of warning about these facts remained unwilling to spend, viewing it as inefficient, and with every individual state that has the capabilities holding recalcitrant attitudes, fighting over who gets to build what.
Basically, what I am saying, is that I would love to have non US weaponry, but if that weaponry can't compete with US weaponry, there isn't much of a point.
I mean, quite frankly, for us, Canada, the most important thing we could possibly do this decade, is to internally create our own ultimate strategic deterrents. Anything short of that would leave us completely defenceless to our greatest military threat, and largest neighbour. There is literally no chance we win any conventional war, so in a way, not even this fighter deal matters.
I agree you on all points, but i want to add that weapon systems where manufactorer has a back door open and they can do things like remotelly lock the missile systems or other weapons, does not really sound appealing.
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