Reddit

This is a rare good one, here is the post:

Background:

r/FuckingFascists is a subreddit focussed on the kink of fucking fascists, Nazis, ICE, MAGA and far right. Since the recent rise in tensions with ICE, users have become increasingly uncomfortable with their kink. One moderator is suddenly confronted with the realisation their kink might be problematic in the current political climate and petitions to shutdown the subreddit. The users react expectadly.

The main post:
At what point are we complicit?

"Hello everyone. This is Brandy, back again for some reflection. This post isn't coming from me in my capacity as a moderator, but as a user, and doesn't reflect any official stance of the mod team, but merely my own.

I've been stewing lately. In the aftermath of the shooting of Renee Good, and now of Alex Pretti, I've been acutely aware of beyond troubling trends here in this subreddit. First, when we put the community on pause after receiving a wave of input from users that we ought to update our policies, the amount of hostility that I, and the moderators received for merely trying to respect the wishes of you, our users, was appalling.

From our official posts, to our mod-mail and DM's, I'd never seen so much open vitriol and toxicity here. Especially given that the hate was aimed at our intention to listen to feedback and attempt to improve safety standards. It makes one think: are the majority of the users here actually genuine fascists and assholes? It seems like it. Any post made under Non-Fascist flairs and any comment in support seems to be flooded with downvotes and flagrant cruelty in its comments. Any post made expressing Serious topics in OOC communication or aftercare is liable to receive waves of bigotry, hate, toxicity, and frankly just stupid comments from actual fascists that are seemingly upset.

I and other mods have always done our best to make clear that this kink should be based entirely in fantasy, as this slice of power dynamic kink can and does have dangerous real-world consequences. Genuine fascists, authoritarians and right wingers are not welcome here. That said, it's seemingly clear, to me at least, that a majority of our users likely are bigots, assholes, authoritarians and bootlickers who are just clever enough to avoid being overt and getting banned.

That leads me to the question at the top: at what point does this group and its users become complicit in the normalization of heinous ideas for nazis, and not an escape and safe space for people with an edgy kink?

I fear we may have passed that inflection point. Personally, I'm weighing going to the rest of the mods and petitioning that we nuke this sub. I realize I'll likely get a ton of hate and push back from a tide of braindead nazis hiding their stripes, but fuck them. I volunteer my time, experience, temperament and judgement to try and keep this place as safe as possible for people to explore a sensitive kink with as little fear as possible, not to empower and embolden pigs and monsters.

If the community has tipped past the point of catering to liberals exclusively to primarily right wingers, nazis, and nazi apologist right wingers, then it's gotta fucking go. If any of this post has upset or scared you, the reader- you're probably part of the problem. For the rest of you who are actual liberals just trying to express your fantasies safely, I apologize. I don't mean to deprive anyone of a safe space, but to give you the behind the scenes perspective- this place isn't safe.

It hasn't been safe for some time, and it's not like the line is even close. It's as safe as it *can be* within the confines of its current setup and Reddit's policies, but I doubt it's safe enough to feel comfortable for many users, and it likely won't be unless truly drastic measures are taken. It's still better than every other fascist themed kink sub out there, because those are all run by actual fascists who we banned from here. There's no better alternative for this kink on Reddit, but even this place is inherently dangerous, despite our best efforts.

It's a rock and a hard place. I don't want to take the safest alternative away from liberals who want a safe space to explore this kink, but I also don't want to cater to you sub-human nazis in this community either. That said, it seems that, unfortunately, consent and safety minded liberals are the minority here- not the majority. Perhaps it's better off if I simply discourage that minority of good people from using Reddit to engage with this kink at all. Maybe it's simply too dangerous. Perhaps it should get wiped out by Reddit, and I should beg and plead with the admins from my position of authority to nuke not only this, but every other sub in this kink space, because I guarantee that they're all much worse than this.

I don't know. I'm tired of catering to you ingrate, inbred MAGA incel hicks, against my better wishes and judgement. I'd really prefer if you all just left. Then I could sleep better at night. I'm rambling, but I truly am wrestling with my course of action, and I'm utterly sick of having to treat you idiotic authoritarian dicks with even a modicum of respect that you don't deserve."

Top comment exchange

If a person cannot distinguish between kink and reality then they are the problem imo. Everyone has the ability think critically. It’s not yours or anyone else’s fault if they choose not to. Of course a place like this sub likely does have people who harbour harmful views and opinions that they believe are rooted in fact but this is their issue nobody else’s.

OP reply:

It's my issue if I give them a platform to spew their garbage.

User reply:

Unfortunately in the “free” world such ideas are allowed to fester platform given or not you’ll probably find that this sub contributes very little to the problem.

Subreddit founder chimes in

I made this sub with the intent of being a safe space for left-leaning individuals to have fun with this kink. destroying it because you don't want the kink to exist anymore is utter bullshit.

It's no different from the sex negative kinkshaming bullshit the sub faced when it first opened.

feel free to delete it and let the kink be dominated by actual right-wing subs, i fucking guess

OP reply:

Let me say this clearly as someone who's been doing the work here since the election: It is not safe. Wasn't when I joined the team, and was less safe at its outset than it is now. There are still throngs of fascists. Maybe the idea and conceit just can't be executed safely. I don't know. We're trying, and have been trying since your abdication, but it only ever appears to get worse in regard to analytics.

Great intention, that I support, but perhaps there's a better way forward than just perpetuating the ongoing slide into propaganda.

Another exchange between subreddit founder and OP

OP in a different comment chain:

A concern for me personally is that those worse alternatives already exist. There are half a dozen subs out there predicated on the same topic with no protections to speak of, and they grow more popular by the day. The idea would be to deprive the fascist majority yet another platform to spew hate, bigotry and propaganda. While it could harm the conscientious users by getting rid of a refuge for them, it's beginning to seem that this kink is inherently unsafe. Perhaps it's more morally responsible to simply dissuade them from engaging with it at all?

Another commenter:

By deleting this place you’d flood those worse alternatives with even more people. It would just be sending everyone to places that don’t care, at least while they’re here we can do what we can to keep the place safe.

OP:

Hopefully they'd see those spaces for what they are and just drop it. I don't know.

Founder:

and just... drop the kink?

imagine if someone said this about humiliation kink in general. imagine how fucking absurd it would sound

OP:

Humiliation kinks don't often glorify people being shot in the street for defending themselves and their communities, or empower people to view people of different races as lesser. To equivocate the two is a bit reductive.

Founder:

You could argue that humiliation kinks glorify emotional abuse and bullying, but i guess people hanging themselves isn't dramatic enough to catch your attention?

people were openly fucking murdered in Trump's first term of office. not just one or two either. suddenly struggling with it says a lot more about how much fucking attention you were paying.

A user trying to pacify:

If you hate the sub so much just leave. No reason to kill everyone else's fun cause you're over it.

OP:

everyone else's fun is genuine engagement with nazism- it would be my moral duty to stop it. I don't hate the sub, I hate the fascist bootlickers who think this is a place for them to have fun.

User:

And they are the vocal minority. I'm not a fucking Nazi, I hate Trump, I would never in a million years vote Republican.

But I'm still down to trash the people that come here for the trashing.

Plus, if you leave there's the obvious outcome of all the Nazis moving to another sub just like this and you have no power to attempt to help. So you're fucked regardless I guess.

Another moderator agrees:

Same. I made a comment about how shocking the murder was yesterday and four separate people showed up in my DMs for sexting which just felt extremely jarring and dehumanizing. And that's the "best case" scenario.

Another exchange:

BREAKING: Reddit is full of a bunch of psychos and assholes who feel they can say whatever they want with impunity! The sky is blue at 11

OP:

The problem is that in our community, it seems they can outweigh the non-psychos. The non-psychos is who this space is for, if it's true they're vastly outnumbered, I don't want to give psychos another venue to indulge in their most evil ideas and thoughts.

OP follows up their first post with a post telling fascists to leave the subreddit. Users seem to be confused

If you voted for Trump, or are a conservative or authoritarian: LEAVE THIS PLACE NOW

The title sums up my thoughts. Get the fuck out of this subreddit. You do not belong. We do not like you. You are not welcome. This subreddit does not want your kind here. Simple. Go. Shoo. Scram. Slink back to whatever hole you spawned from. Leave us alone

One user is very confused:

Isnt this subreddit for people who voted trump or for people who have a kink for conservative men?

Op response:

Nope. It's for liberals to engage in fantasy. I think Darth Vader's a cool character and enjoy stories with him- that doesn't mean I'd be friends with a child murderer. Same principle applies. I like porn with power play and politics play, that doesn't mean I abide genuine right-wing bootlickers.

user:

So it is for liberals to have fantasies with right leaning men.

OP:

Yes, but only fantasies for liberals. Right leaning men are not allowed and explicitly told to go fuck themselves before receiving a ban.

another commenter:

Yeah… lol that’s not happening irl, lots of people on here are taking this literally and are invisioning their fascist sympathizing self as the top. I found this group through researching where I could find MAGA sympathizers (hopefully to make into my bitches) and was told this was where the most to find some really extreme woman hating fascists. So who ever is running this and posting is not making that clear enough and most of these posts are providing lots of wank material for losers who want to fantasize about sexual abusing those they oppress and oppose. FYI to whoever is running this sub and making this material.

From the same initial comment chain

Mod response:

Absolutely not. This is a kink subreddit, about fictional, pretend fascists. Not the ones that voted Trump.

Different commenter:

Yeah, I’m not sure if mods know this, but A LOT of people on this sub are far right and are genuinely wanking it to ideas of abusing and raping the people they oppress. And all the left people just doing it for kink are providing them with material and egging them on. It’s pretty disturbing to me.

OP:

We know and are sickened by it. We do what we can to ban those creeps as fast and often as we can.

Some reflection from other commenters:

The amount of down votes in the comments here is wild.

When we had the discussion about closing the sub I wanted to keep it open. But this post may be convincing me that privat-ing it will be the better way.

Just know this: There are maga all over this sub pretending it’s just a kink.

Fr, it's killing the vibe for me , I've been away from this sub with the overload in the real world and I wish it wasn't so. Idk how we could verify but I feel like some kind of verification is needed.

Maybe if we have more posts where conservatives are topped they will start to dislike this sub?

This has been posted here like 30 times and weirdos who don't get it still manage to lurk here 😭😭 why can't they get this place done want actual fuckfaces