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Whitout disrespecting MLK, he wrote about completelly different people, with completelly different values who were living in a different time. You cant really bring writings about highly individualistic culture in a time when racial segration was common and slavery were still so fresh there were both, people who used to own slaves and people who were born in slavery alive, and except it to represent modern day europeans accuratelly. I think Bernie Sanders is good example. In USA he is perceived as a borderline extremist by some, but in most european countries his policies are pretty mild and centrist.
I bet EU countries would fare much better than USA in face of economic hardship. Europeans generally are not as invidualistic as americans and social safety nets are better.
And no, i honestly havent seen those comments. I try to steer clear from social media, and what i have seen here are more desperate calls for action than anything else.
I have really hard time beliving the rich and powerfull would on purpose cross the line and bomb the economy, because they have most to lose. The risk and the reward just does not add up.
How are different people and such? My parents were adults when MLK was murdered. My parents are still alive and politically active.
EU would definitely handle a downturn better than us. That has nothing to do with what I was saying. I am talking about innate psychological phenomenon within all of us.
If money is so smart and free of all human mental fragility, then why is it that they always have a giant hand in fascism? It’s part of the very definition of fascism. Fascist regimes last a long time and destroy economies, yet they still happen. Interesting, maybe they are not gods of wisdom and logic, but slaves to greed and power. They seek not to strengthen each other’s hands, but to dominate each other. Money payed to power returns them power and money to even stomp on each other.
He lived in a time when racial segregation was the norm and wrote from the perspective afro american male.
Women had just gotten a right to vote and while they could get a job, huge part of them were housewifes. And the jobs they could apply were still very limited.
The whole socioeconomic situation and upbringing of people cant be compared to modern day EU. I think good example how much culture and history effects to the way people act, is watching how people in Japan react during and after disasters and compare it to how people in states react. Granted its extreme example and USA and EU are not that far apart from eachother, but it shows well how differently different cultures act in different situation. Hence i say, that MLK's writings cant just be willy nilly aplied to people living on the otherside of the world allmost a century after the writing.
I did not say money was smart. Im saying that if you have billions tied to a boat you dont want to shake it. Fasist regimes are not the same as oligarch. Hitler, Stalin and Mussolini were not rich busines men when they started their politics. Maybe they werent dirt poor either, but most of their wealth came after. If you look soviets at the beginning there were rich people who tried to fight the regime, but in the end they were forced to work with the leaders in power or disapear. What i am trying to say is, when people have lots of money tied to something, they try to keep things steady. Ofcouse there will be fanatics, but most people who handle huge amounts of money are business savy enough to see that tanking the economy now is not worth of the unsure payout in the future, when the way things go now are allready making them rich.
I am not communicating this well then. The hesitancy of the moderates was, and still is like your statement: “when people have lots of money tied to something, they try to keep things steady.” That is why I assert this is a fundamental trait we all share as humans. If fixing the status quo upsets my life, then I will probably temper my will for those changes. How do you not have this behavior? What if the changes necessitate a generation of austerity; a forced collapse of the existing system? If you have children, why would you NOT consider how it will impact them? This is basic human stuff. For me personally, I will likely die early for this principle, but I struggle with these contentions in my mind. I haven’t lived a nice life and I don’t have much of anything to lose in the way of children, partners, or money. But I do take care of my elderly parents, and my remaining siblings are both fully disabled in different ways. I imagine the situation where I get killed or jailed at the sunset of my mother’s life. She has experienced much pain hers. She has lost children. Do I want to send her off with more pain? No, and it absolutely affects my decisions. There are animals that I care for. I can imagine the stress and pain that they will experience when abandoned. Most people have WAY MORE to lose than I do, and my few things restrict me.
The Soviet Union was a communist authoritarian nation. I never implied that the strongmen were the oligarchs. Fascism is a particular flavor of bad people putting themselves over others. In this flavor of assholery, capitalist oligarchs have always had a large roll. It is part of the definition of fascism. People seem to think fascism == authoritarianism, but they are not the same, for one is a subset of the other.
There’s a whole spectrum of wealth. There are a surprising amount of batshit-crazy ultra billionaires. They have the same weaknesses as everyone else. They succumb to their own collective propaganda. They are narcissistic sociopaths.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economics_of_fascism
In the US, we have been pulling our hair out trying to understand why so many us are believing stark lies that lead to ruin. We have about a dozen billionaires in cabinet positions. Our oligarch class wholeheartedly supports Trump. Yeah, some push back when their pot gets disturbed, then they give the admin money or power in exchange for a carve-out and contract.
And my point is that you cant expect every culture act similary to 30's/40's white american nuclear family
Im sorry for the hardship you are experiencing. I truly wish USA will someday have proper care and safety nets for the people.
But you cant mirror you situation to the whole world.
I recommend you to read about 21st century civil unrests in France. I dont say its necessary the right thing to do, but boy those people dont stay passive or care about status quo if they feel like something isint going to their way. I really cant imagine figure like Trump would stay in power for long in there.
This is a fair assestment. Alltough i personally feel like they have just so removed from the problems of the normal people, that they dont know what the life is to rest of us. Like i think many people have experiences with a supervisor/boss that has not been done the everyday part of the job in so long, they dont anymore know how to assess it.
Operative word being "after". At that point the figurative boat has allready capsized. We are not there yet.
From my outside perspective your system is just broken. President has too much power and the two party system just makes it so that the moment other party gets elected they start by undoing what the predecessor did. Congress is good thing, but again the two party system shoots it in the leg.
Also i cant comprehend the gerrymandering. Its a thing that made sense in a time when poll results were delivered on horseback.
I hope you guys find a way to fix your shit, but world will go on even if you wont. USA is not as important to the world as your news or schools may say.
Firstly, thank you for the discussion.
I must be poorly making my point. I am writing about something all humans do in all times and future. No healthy animal decides to hurt itself. Parents instinctively protect and care for their children. Parents often try to safeguard their children’s futures by making them healthy, educated and financially secure. This has nothing to do with a nuclear family. If my friend takes medicine to live, I want them to always have that medicine available to them. If I have a pet, I want them fat and warm in the winter. I don’t want to die. I want to live. These are all things humans consider, or they are brain dead.
Please answer this question: Would you sacrifice yourself, and everyone you’ve loved, for your principles?
I do enjoy discussions like these, but we are getting stuck.
Im talking about the quote you said earlier, and how, while it is a strong quote, its not universal and it cannot be just tossed as is to the other situation. The quote critiques how people enjoying certain benefits are slow to change their opinion and behavior when people they seem less worthy are given chance to get some of those benefits for themself.
And the situation we are talking is how much people are willing to take if there will be a trade war in future. These are two very different situations.
If my friend needs medicine to live and they cant get it because some nation on the other side of the sea wants to subjucate us, it is only going to get me hate that nation harder.
By the way this is called a yes set. Its when you are asking questions where only reasonable answer for the other side is to agree with you or pick a response you have already decited. Ideally this leaves you in the position where you can keep building on that and getting other person agreeing with you turns arguments into discussions, even if it is scripted. Few of these and im gonna buy a car from you.
You want a safe car for your family, right? Is it important to you, that your car is dependable? What matters to you more, the mileage or how it drives?
This sedan was just waiting for you to come in!
I am still confused by your thoughts. I truly do not mean to entrap you somehow, if that’s what you mean. I am only trying to understand your beliefs and then refine mine. A cycle of asking refining questions and getting candid answers is how I try to understand someone’s beliefs. Also, some of the questions were answers to your assertions. I was hoping the questions would reveal that I am not referring to a mental process that constrained to any time or place. Not constrained to family.
Yes, the situation was different with the civil rights movement. I was referring to a very specific trait in human behavior that I am trying to fully understand. I can understand if white moderates looked down on blacks and decided that now is not the right time and such, but they didn’t necessarily look down on them. The changes would inevitably cause personal pain to those white moderates. Within them is the full spectrum, including ultra-wealthy who would prefer stability of their economic realm. My thoughts circle around to how a group can be strong and united for a worthy cause, but totally fail to do what is needed, because of individual selfishness. I don’t mean selfish in a bad sense, but in that we will all naturally consider our situation and how our situation will be affected. Consciously, or not, we will account for our own needs, desires and fears. I strongly believe that this an abstract thought process that we apply everywhere.
I just looked up about yes sets. Haha, I was so so confused why you writing of car sales. No, I was trying to establish a foundation of agreement. I hoped you would agree with caring for yourself and others in your life. I also assumed that your brain would process the implications, whether you’d like it to or not. Sometimes those questions seem to cause some sort of cognitive dissonance (something else I try to understand) and the person refuses to answer in a candid way, or has an emotional outburst. I experience it all the time in the US now. MAGA mind will argue in bad faith until they pass out. If one won’t answer questions that ground the conversation, they are likely a troll.
We can end it here, that’s fine.