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While I agree they are unlikely to get a fair trial
I do wonder how much of it was "following orders" and how much was pure bloodlust. Neither excuses this, but the former would be indicative of bigger evil up the chain of command.
Everyone deserves a fair trial. If Israel cannot provide one then perhaps The Hague or Palestine can assist them in getting a fair trial.
A very reasonable and sensible perspective, but what if that's still not going to be a fair trial either? We all have pretty strong opinions about torture, so I think we may need to go the extra mile in this case. If no unbiased jury can be found anywhere on planet Earth, then we'll have to send them to Mars for a fair trial instead. It doesn't even have to be elaborate, we can use the rules of the good old fashioned "trial by ordeal". If you can survive on Mars, that demonstrates you were innocent all along and you can come right back home. Otherwise this is going to get dragged out for years and years while they dig up even more evidence and who knows what else may get discovered. This is really the best option for everyone. All aboard to Mars.
A "fair trial" is not about having a jury or judge from Planet Neutral.
Is it about having a defence and a jury or judge who weigh the evidence of the prosecution against the counter-evidence of the defence properly, to come to a conclusion.
I appreciate your attempt to be serious, but I'm going to continue to recommend trial by ordeal and since you brought up the possibility of having it be conducted on Planet Neutral then I'll support that too, I admit I don't know where it is but I'm assuming it's going to be a really, really, really long trip, especially at sublight speeds.
Just ask in their embassy where it is located.
There was a very high profile criminal rape trial in Australia this year which was abandoned permanently after one of the jurors was found to have snuck a magazine article into court. See Lerhmann vs Higgins.
That could have been a strategy arranged by the defence. But if you think the judiciary itself corruptly arranged it then think again...
There was a civil defamation trial later where it was found the accused did indeed commit rape "on the balance of probability" (vs the more strict criminal criterion of "beyond reasonable doubt").
So in this Israeli case the worry is now that the leak has damaged the likelihood of punishment for the perpetrators.
Every military ever.
The concept that a soldier is able to disobey an illegal order is flawed. The first thing that happens to them is being thrown in jail awaiting court martial. It's then on them to prove the order illegal be ause the presumption is that it was legal. It becomes one person against the whole military apparatus.
The penalty if found guilty of refusing to obey orders? At minimum (in the US) a dishonorable discharge. At most a room on death row.
I still think soldier should refuse illegal orders, but the system is setup so they don't.
I for one am 100% done with giving soldiers any grace on these matters.
You should update your minimum. In the US military It’s actually an NJP to start. You can request court martial if desired and it goes from there.
Dishonorable discharge is very rare and you’re likely to end up with an OTH or BCD if the “infraction” is significant. I’d rather have some jail time than shoot civilians tbh.
Not even an NJP if you're a Nuke. I've told admirals to their face that I wasn't going to break the book to follow their stupid orders. I realize we are the prima donnas of the military though, and I wasn't just a Nuke.
What is a Nuke?
It’s someone who works on a nuclear powered ship. You have to take extra tests to get on a nuke and they only allow the smartest ASVAB scores to take the test.
Navy Nuclear Power Program Member
Well we just have to make sure the consequences for obeying orders to commit war crimes are worse than what their superiors can dish out for disobeying those orders.
The US has no draft, they choose to join, so they can go fuck themselves.
Assassins paid with taxpayer money, that's all they are.
Israel does. Compulsory service.
They're not that dissimilar, both indoctrinate exceptionalism and fascism into their kids from an early age, the difference being that usonians go overseas to liberate other people of their oil, whereas israelis have war zones (they create) geographically close, so a bit of incentive is required for them to join the meat grinder. Not much though.
You always have a choice.
This is what happens with Fascist thugs. American citizens in the US are getting shot in the back by ICE and beaten. People are dissappearing or held in detention with no camera footage to leak. Same shit, different continent.
Both equally idf terrorists like to terrorize paleatinins rape and torture them following Israel leaders policies
90%, they're bred like that since they were born.