Socialism
An international (English speaking) socialist Lemmy community free of the "ML" influence of instances like lemmy.ml and lemmygrad. This is a place for undogmatic and constructive discussion from a progressive, anti-capitalist and truly anti-imperialist perspective, regardless of specific ideology.
A certain knowledge of socialism is expected, if you are new to/interested in socialism, please visit c/Socialism101 before participating here. Socialism101 will gladly help you by answering questions, providing resources etc.
Memes go in c/Lefty Memes
Please don't forget to help keep this community clean by reporting rule violations, upvoting good contributions and downvoting those of low-quality!
Rules
1. Socialist Unity in the form of mutual respect and good faith discussion is enforced here.
Try to keep an open mind, other schools of thought may offer points of view and analyses you haven't considered yet. Also: This is not a place for the Idealism vs. Materialism or rather Anarchism vs. Marxism debate(s), for that please visit c/AnarchismVsMarxism
2. Anti-Imperialism means recognizing capitalist states like Russia and China as such,
as well as condemning (their) imperialism, even if it is of the "anti-USA" flavour.
3. No liberalism, (right-wing) revisionism or reactionaries.
That includes so called: Social Democracy, Democratic Socialism, Dengism, Market Socialism, Patriotic Socialism, National Bolshevism, Anarcho-Capitalism etc. . Anti-Socialist people and content have no place here, as well as the variety of "Marxist"-"Leninists" seen on lemmygrad and more specifically GenZedong (actual ML's are welcome as long as they agree to the rules and don't just copy paste/larp about stuff from a hundred years ago).
4. No Bigotry.
The only dangerous minority is the rich.
5. Don't demonize previous and current socialist experiments or (leading) individuals.
We must constructively learn from their mistakes, while acknowledging their achievements and recognizing when they have strayed away from socialist principles.
(if you are reading the rules to apply for modding this community, mention "Xenial Xerus" when answering question 2)
6. Don't idolize/glorify previous and current socialist experiments or (leading) individuals.
Notable achievements in all spheres of society were made by various socialist/people's/democratic republics around the world. Mistakes, however, were made as well: bureaucratic castes of parasitic elites - as well as reactionary cults of personality - were established, many things were mismanaged and prejudice and bigotry sometimes replaced internationalism and progressiveness.
7. Absolutely no posts or comments meant to relativize(/apologize for), advocate, promote or defend:
- Racism
- Sexism
- Queerphobia
- Ableism
- Classism
- Rape or assault
- Genocide/ethnic cleansing or (mass) deportations
- Fascism
- (National) chauvinism
- Orientalism
- Colonialism or Imperialism (and their neo- counterparts)
- Zionism
- Religious fundamentalism of any kind
(This is not a definitive list, the spirit of the other rules still counts! Eventual duplicates with other rules are for emphasis.)
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Water in bottles in America is often as expensive as soft drinks. And Yeah many places the Water is not good to Drink from the faucet..
So by you own admission there is literally no downside to grab a water and you still choose the unhealthy option. And the same logic is probably applied everywhere.
You dont get it Do you? If you have no money cant buy good food you have to buy stuff that makes Life better.. And suggar gives the Illusion that Life is better.. You Sound very Privileged.. But ive seen you ignore facts so i assume you wont see the side of people with Low income where you can not buy healthy food
Also not just do we need to account for the psychology, which he isn't doing, but also, a lot of the times soft drinks in multipacks can actually be cheaper than bottled water. Not often, but I've definitely seen it even in Finland (and our tap water is great) where a bottle of water would be around 1e but some offer makes it so that you can buy a sixpack of coke cans for 3e, making it cheaper by volume.
I'm not saying the prices should be the determining factor, but I think most of us know that for anyone who even knows what "paycheck to paycheck" means, it too often is the most crucial factor in determining purchases.
Which water is 1€, Fiji? Buy supermarket brand water for 0.25€ for a 1.5L, or drink tap water. 6 cans of coke for 3 euros is 1.5€ per liter. Your math isn't mathing. On top of everything, if you really want coke, bottles are always cheaper than cans.
Literally the cheapest brand at my local store.
Like people have been saying, you're vastly underestimating the costs.
Edit oh and bottles aren't always cheaper than cans, what on Earth gives you that idea? Cans have a 0.15 deposit here, 0.5l bottles 0.20e and large bottles 0.4e. Yeah, usually you can get the market brand largest coke bottle for less than you pay for a sixpack of brand coke, but a lot of the times it's on sale for 3e a sixpack, meaning it's sometimes cheaper than the non-brand cokes. I don't drink that much coke, but there's more value in deposits in a sixpack of cans (0.15 * 6 = 90 cnt as opposed to 40 cents from the 1.5-2l bottle) and it doesn't lose the co2 as fast due to being in separate canisters
Ok, now show the coke, water is 0.52€ per liter.
PS: deposit is refundable. Do poor people just throw away money now?
Nope, that's not how you spell "oh look, I am actually rather stupid for having such arrogance with zero knowledge and arguments".
So you refused to believe a bottle of water is 1€. I proved you wrong. You thought you'd get a bottle with 25 cents, thinking water costs 5 cents above the 20 cnt deposit.
Just like you have been this entire thread (which is why everyone is downvoting you), you're just acting like a kid who's ashamed he did something silly and wants to pretend he didn't.
You keep saying wrong things. I haven't. I keep proving how the things I say are true. Which you keep ignoring, because you don't want to be proved wrong.
Admit you were wrong. Admit that generic store brand flat water is 1€ for 0.5l in my closest store. (They don't even have the gallon+ jug most of the time if you actually needed water.)
But like, for the umpteenth time, I DO NOT LIVE IN A FOOD DESERT NOR HAVE I EVER BEEN IN THE USA. Your reading is so bad that I have no problem believing you grew up in a shitty communist country, lol.
You proved yourself wrong. You showed me a bottle way cheaper than that in you own screenshot.
PS: deposit is not part of the price, you get that back...
I didn't prove myself wrong in anything way. You're talking about a bottle that costs over 5 euros. You're just having to avoid that, and to even remotely remain with your delusions, you're now pretending you didn't argue that you can get 1.5l for 25 cents, when 25c doesn't even cover the 40c deposit of the 1.5l bottle.
You claimed 1e bottles don't exist. Laughed even.. Proved you 100% wrong. But you aren't and never will be man enough to admit to your mistakes.
Deposit is part of the price you have to pay at the till. Going there and saying "oh you can wave the deposits, they're just deposits" won't make the price any less. You'll get some back later, yeah. But the price at the till is the price at the till.
You're wrong and simply not man enough to accept that.
The deposit is not part of the price (for the third time).
For the umpteenth time, yes it is, you're just an ignorant moron.
The bottle of water costs one euro. Of that one euro, 20c is deposit and of the remaining 80c, 24% VAT is applied.
According to your "logic" (which the whole site is cackling at, just fucking do yourself a service and run away with your tail between your legs so you don't shame yourself even more) you don't pay a thing if you get it back.
Perhaps you need a dictionary?
Here, a receipt showing what a moron you are
See how the 0,20c on the "PULLOPANTTI" (= BOTTLE DEPOSIT) lines is added to the total?
What kind of a pathetic fucking troll are you? :DD just stomping your foot "wyaaa wyaaa am not wrong wyaa wyaaa"
Yes you are dumb dumb
Pro tip: bring the bottle back, you'll get free money. It will be life changing.
"You can get a 1.5.l bottle of water for 25 cents!"
No, you can't. You simply simply can't. The 40c won't even cover the deposit, let alone pay for the product.
The deposit you pretend "isn't part of the price". I'm still having a hard time deciding whether someone can be that bad at English / that dumb, or if you're just pretending.
Like, you're genuinely exhilarating, that stupid you are. I'd like to see you argue an economist on how you think the taxes the economist pay aren't part of the costs of his 2024, despite being taxed marginally less in 2025 and having covered it in 2024.
No wait sorry, that's a too long example for your cognition. Sooowwy. :((
Deposit is not part of the price.
This is beyond childish.
You need a fkin dictionary.
It is a deposit, because you pay an amount as deposit, that you don't get paid back until you do a certain action (of returning the bottle in good enough shape).
That's like saying that taxes aren't anything you have to pay, since you can get tax returns if [condition met].
I simply don't know whether you're a pathetic troll or one of the even more pathetic people who are psychologically blocked from accepting when they fuck up. They are ludicrous. So I'm gonna show everyone just how ludicrous you are unless you possess the survival instinct to bolt.
Although I wouldn't be surprised if you can't do basic math xDDD
Yeah, still not part of the price, basic economics.
Gold is the most universal substance and everywhere around us, you just need to pick it up and go sell it to be a millionaire.
Oh wait, reality doesn't change based on what we say, like your schizophrenia makes you think?
So to recap you argue that people aren't choosing the thing you argued costs 25c for a 1.5l bottle? Which is patently untrue, because deposit is part of the price. ;>
Here, look at the image you've pretended to not notice.
Or can you not do basic arithmetic either? :D
And then you argue that convenience stores carry this 25c water, (which they don't), but that it's "super profitable"? Just how insane are you? Honestly, I'm very worried. Where do you live so I can report your problems to the healthcare / social workers where you live?
Then you argue that 1e bottles don't exist. Again, purely schizophrenic when you've been shown this image a bunch of times:
Not to mention me repeatedly telling you I DON'T EVEN LIVE IN A FOOD DESERT, the things your schizo brain is telling you don't exist. :D
You're hilarious, although I do worry for you.
Copy paste doesn't change it...
You're so fucking sad.
Everyone can see what an idiot you're making of yourself, but you're still letting your childish ego rule you? :D what are you, 8?
Youre just plain wrong but you're so mad your will never be able to admit to it. I've seen this exact behaviour from thousands of kids along the decades.
You'll stop even addressing the things you've said, because you realise what a moron you've been.
The one thing you can't do is stop posting. It's honestly pretty ludicrous.
No matter what schizophrenic shit you post you still pretend like you aren't completely woo-woo?
"Water is hightly profitable, although you can buy it for 25c even though that doesn't even cover the deposit"
"You don't need to pay a deposit because you get it back. So the price of a drink which includes the deposit doesn't actually include the deposit. It doesn't! A drink including the price of the deposit in the price doesn't have the deposit in there price!"
Seriously, I want to get you professsional help. Where do you live?
You can't so basic match can't you? What is the amount of money you need to give to get these products for yourself from the store? (that's something known as "the price". I know your English sucks. So if you give me your address, i van mail you a dictionary and call you help for your mental distress.
Talking about PRICE why did you laugh at the idea of a water bottle costing 1e? Either you can't read and youre schizophrenic... OR You were wrong. But you'll never be man enough to admit to that lol.
I think they might have brain damage, if they think they are in the right.
I'm literally a store clerk, as as I ring up items, CRV (the bottle return money) is included in the sale of every glass and plastic bottle we sell. It's not saving money, it's included as the cost to help make recycling easier.
What I think Tja means is that, because you can get the deposit refunded later, you should effectively deduct it from the retail price when talking about the overall cost of the product. But that position assumes everyone actually goes to a bottle deposit to collect the refund, which in reality barely anyone does. So it's still a specious point to be arguing about.
But truth be told it's probably just an Internet tantrum where he's lying instead of actually having massive brain damage. But can't rule it out tho
I'm literally a store clerk, as as I ring up items, CRV (the bottle return money) is included in the sale of every glass and plastic bottle we sell. It's not saving money, it's included as the cost to help make recycling easier.
I was poor longer than half my life. If I used my money to buy sugar drinks, I didn't blame my lack of money for my bad nutrition.
You are a stubborn idiot.
Why do you pretend food deserts don't exist, when they every clearly do?
Is it that much of a hit to your childish ego? Kinda pitiful.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_desert
Do you have trouble understanding the words? I can translate if you tell me your native language. Clearly it's not English.
Never claimed that, just said that if you buy sugar drinks instead of water, don't blame your lack of nutrition or health on being poor, food deserts, George Soros, space lasers or the military industrial complex.
"what's an implication"
You've outright argued that people living in food deserts are JUST MAKING BAD CHOICES instead of NOT HAVING CHOICES AVAILABLE TO THEM.
I've met dogs who understand English better than you
They have choices: water.
Oooh, wittle trollito is having a tantrum. How sweet!
Tantrum?
Oh, you've slipped into the "I'm super ashamed but not yet quitting, so I'm just gonna pretend that these one word replies aren't because I'm fuming about what a moron I've been"
Yes, babby, your tantrum. Do you need a dictionary?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_desert
Dipshit :D
I don't think that word means what you think it means.
Gold is the most universal substance and everywhere around us, you just need to pick it up and go sell it to be a millionaire.
Oh wait, reality doesn't change based on what we say, like your schizophrenia makes you think?
So to recap you argue that people aren't choosing the thing you argued costs 25c for a 1.5l bottle? Which is patently untrue, because deposit is part of the price. ;>
Here, look at the image you've pretended to not notice.
Or can you not do basic arithmetic either? :D
And then you argue that convenience stores carry this 25c water, (which they don't), but that it's "super profitable"? Just how insane are you? Honestly, I'm very worried. Where do you live so I can report your problems to the healthcare / social workers where you live?
Then you argue that 1e bottles don't exist. Again, purely schizophrenic when you've been shown this image a bunch of times:
Not to mention me repeatedly telling you I DON'T EVEN LIVE IN A FOOD DESERT, the things your schizo brain is telling you don't exist. :D
You're hilarious, although I do worry for you.
Spam?
You're so fucking sad.
Everyone can see what an idiot you're making of yourself, but you're still letting your childish ego rule you? :D what are you, 8?
Youre just plain wrong but you're so mad your will never be able to admit to it. I've seen this exact behaviour from thousands of kids along the decades.
You'll stop even addressing the things you've said, because you realise what a moron you've been.
The one thing you can't do is stop posting. It's honestly pretty ludicrous.
No matter what schizophrenic shit you post you still pretend like you aren't completely woo-woo?
"Water is hightly profitable, although you can buy it for 25c even though that doesn't even cover the deposit"
"You don't need to pay a deposit because you get it back. So the price of a drink which includes the deposit doesn't actually include the deposit. It doesn't! A drink including the price of the deposit in the price doesn't have the deposit in there price!"
Seriously, I want to get you professsional help. Where do you live?
You can't so basic match can't you? What is the amount of money you need to give to get these products for yourself from the store? (that's something known as "the price". I know your English sucks. So if you give me your address, i van mail you a dictionary and call you help for your mental distress.
Talking about PRICE why did you laugh at the idea of a water bottle costing 1e? Either you can't read and youre schizophrenic... OR You were wrong. But you'll never be man enough to admit to that lol.