this post was submitted on 08 Oct 2025
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ZIONISTS.
Do you understand that this is a word with a different meaning from Judaism? Like, if I said "Theocratic-Christian", is your first thought "Sounds like a conspiracy meant to smear all Christians."? Or do you have the critical thinking skills to understand that there is more than one sect of any religious belief? Because the other option is that you are intelligent, but just like to bend words in order to score semantic victories while your soul withers under the weight of the horrors which you choose to defend. That can't be it, I don't think you're an evil guy,
Jews have been here for thousands of years, half of my family was Jewish, everyone aside from my great-grandparents on one side died in the camps. We don't control shit.
ZIONISTS are religious ethno-supremecist racists who have been around for roughly 100 years. My grandmother is older than Israel. And the outlets which I named are clearly and objectively controlled by ZIONIST interests. If you don't like that, do something to change it instead of just pouting when others mention it.
If you hear Zionism, and conflate it with Judaism, that's not anybody's problem but yours.
Just to throw this into the mix, 95% of the Zionists I know personally are evangelical Christians with no Jewish heritage whatsoever.
Their particular death cult requires the existence of Israel as a state for their end-times prophecies.
They have no particular love for Jewish people -- and, in fact, they frequently employ antisemitic language and stereotypes -- but they absolutely love the Israeli government.
Exactly this. They would make kinda jokes about Jewish stuff. But they want the State of Israel to exist.
Neo-Nazis and White Supremacists used zionist to disguise their antisemitism. The belief in a "Zionist-Occupied Government" or in your case, control of international media, is an old antisemitic conspiracy theory.
Yeah I know, it's a huge problem right now. Antisemitism is rising in a dangerous way and if you want to blame someone, his name starts with B and ends in enjamin Netanyahu. Or "The Decades-Long Funder of Hamas" as he is sometimes known.
That's what I mean, this conflation with insane Zionists like Bibi or Ben Givr or Smoltritch or Larry Ellison or settlers in the West Bank with the religion of Judaism is the #1 cause of increasing antisemitism. Nothing even comes close. When humans see evil, we want it to stop, go figure huh?
Like you said "Sounds a lot like 'jews control the media'.". Yeah, because Zionists are making it their entire goal to do that. They are talking openly about it. Not Jews, Zionists. Listen to Bibi's cringy-ass recent speech about controlling the media narrative. They are saying that this is what they are doing. They are intentionally making the conflation so that people like you, can come on here and claim that anti-zionism is antisemitism. In this way, they can continue their genocide. I made my choice, because I am an adult. I don't care what they call it. Have you?
We see every day unspeakable atrocities, and the leaders of the nations responsible for this go on TV and tell us all that it is hateful to Jews if we stand against this evil because the perpetrators are Israeli. So people are given the choice, by Zionsts, to either stand against evil or be labeled antisemitic.
Do you see the problem here?
Israelis are waking up too, you ever wonder why there is always a magic reason to postpone elections whenever Bibi is on the block? He will never stop war by choice. If it stops, he retires in prison, and he knows this. He is using you.
So this Zionist-Occupied Media will cease to be once Bibi is gone?
How much overlap between antizionism and antisemitism do you think there is?
zionism is a form of antisemitism. as a jew i speak against zienism because zionism is against me. let me explain briefly the problem:
yes, antisemites sometimes use aesthetic antizionism to hide their hate as they inject it into the conversation. i've written at least one report in the last 24 hours for someone using a slur as a stand in for "zionist" that has a slightly different meaning to jews and white supremacists alike.
but that does not mean we should stop discussing antizionism, and the way you are approaching this issue in this comment is actually a problem. it reads like you want to stop the conversation to prevent the risk that an antisemite will use antizionism to spread their antisemitism. but this only supports the status quo, and the status quo is antisemitic and zionist in nature.
we live, all of us, in a world of illusory divisions that the oppressor (we call the oppressor pharaoh since our history goes back to the bronze ages, and pharaoh was the first opressor we knew of) exploits. by shutting down the discussion of these illusions, you allow people to remain in the dark. please be more open to that allowing discussion of antizionism is important and needed.
You don't see the ZOG conspiracy as antisemitic?
i do. i deeply deeply do. but the other person is talking about something else: israel and aipac feeding the ZOG conspiragy theory and letting antisemites and zionists control the narrative. the voice of many jews, jews who believe it is their role to speak against opression, are being silenced right now. a distorted view of who we are is being nomalized. no, jews don't control the media or the government. and this other poster was explicitly not claiming that. but a political ideology of hate is becoming normalized. several, in fact, in concert with eachother. to understand this it's important to understand what modern israeli zionism is and how it aligns itself in the global movement toward authoritarianism.
modern isreali zionism was cultivated in an environment of white supremacy and is a form of it. the major white supremacist champions right now are russia, the united states, and israel. overall, the media is controlled by white supremacy beneficiaries because that's what the overall global system of capital has been set up around for 600 years. zionism, being attached to that, gets to set the narrative about what antisemitism in this moment, and it benefits them to align themselves with other white supremacists who want jews to leave their places in society to go somewhere else.
the other commenter is actually doing a really good job staying on message and making it clear what the problem is they're talking about. when i see comments like yours equating discussing this problem to believing in the false narrative that jews control everything it makes me feel tired and sad. i do believe your heart is in the right place, and that you mean well, but what you are doing is unhelpful to furthering the discussions we should be having to dismantle the hate that we experience.
instead of asking if i believe the zionist occupied government conspiracy theory is antisemitic, i wish you would ponder why it is israel promotes white nationalist narratives about who jews are. i want you to think about the fact that ben gvir is called "the israeli david duke." we live in an era of systematic racism and zionism is the jewish flavor of that. israel, the white supremacist state, gets to attach their propaganda to other white supremacist propaganda because it fits in.
you do explain it nicely.
I'm curious, do you think we should start using a different term to refer to Israel's actions?
I ask since zionism, by definition, means recognition of a Jewish state. I don't necessarily think that's a bad thing, though I do think Israel's current actions are bad. I also feel as if it's worth mentioning that neo-nazis and white supremacists have found themselves a goldmine in spreading their conspiracy and bigotry disguised as antizionism, it's quite alarming.
so. i'm going to answer a little biased. my family is from a place in europe where religious tolerance was the norm from ~300-1883. i think a jewish state, just like any ethnonationalist state, theocratic state, or if i'm being honest any state is a mistake. i do not think zionism being equated to racial/religious violence is a mistake given that the entire project of creating a jewish homeland started with deciding if it shoud be in the levant, modern day Ukraine, or the united states. the levant was ultimately selected less based on the historical merits of some manner of landback movement, but instead based on operational military realities.
in other words: modern day israel is where it is mostly because it was assumed Florida and Lviv would be places too hard to take over via violence. i cannot endorse this course of action in good conscience. during the rise of zionism as a political ideology, another one also rose: the concept of Doikayt. zionism is neocolonialism. zionism is "we have learned the oppressors ways through the last 12k years and now it's time we were on top." Doikayt is "no one should suffer as we have and i cannot be free as long as anyone is not free."
i very much believe that safety for the jewish people will not come from a jewish state, or any other state. it will come from meeting our neighbors, making friends with them, dancing and eating with them, and helping them achieve freedom from our united opressors. the thing to understand, as i see it, is that states are illusions of order. they are coagulations of violence that mimic acting in their people's best interest not in order to provide for their people, but in order to maintain control.
so. no. i don't think we need a new word. the old word has been a problem we've been working to combat for 140 years. the old word represents an entire ideology of hate and pain that will not ever provide us the safety it promises. and if we do need a new word to describe the problems with a jewish state, it should be in yiddish to represent that zionism is not rooted in the jewish identity, but rather in ashkenazic trauma response, much as Doikayt, hereness, is a yiddish word.
I agree completely. Does that include the arab states throughout the middle-east and palestine itself? These are also ethnonationalist states.
yes. i also support liberation movements in Iran, Syria, Afghanistan, and Saudi Arabia, as well as movements throughout the muslim world towards progress. like i said. i cannot be free until we're all free.
but also.
i don't see how this is relevant. it seems like a form of whataboutism on the face of it and it's making me uncomfortable and reconsider what your aims in this discussion are.
I see you left Iran out of that list. Are they included?
??? they're the first nation i listed
and no one is excluded from my drive for the liberation of all people. i cannot be free until we're all free. the ones i listed are simply ones i have friends directly involved in, ones i selfishly have personal stake in because i want my personal friends to sing with joy in a safe and just world where everyone has food, water, shelter, and the right to love who they love.
oh lol, sorry i derped, was juggling multiple talks at once, wires crossed
how do you think peace will be achieved? since i just don't see it ever happening
same way as everywhere:
all peoples of the earth are ultimately only one. it's a long road, but it's worth taking
I hope you don't mind me poking holes in your peace plan. But doesn't faith contradict the no ethnonationalism from before?
And I agree with education, but what should the response be when Hamas refuses to teach the holocaust to its people's children?
i don't see any holes poked:
And how does one go about deprograming the masses? Because propaganda runs rampant, there's so much of it in this very thread
No, he wasn't the first colonial leader, and he won't be the last though I hope he is, he's just the leader at this time when technology has begun to allow for the live-streaming of murder. And he doubles down, and doubles down. And says "Don't believe your lying eyes, these are animals that are being killed, they are not people.". DO YOU KNOW THE LAST TIME WE HEARD THAT KIND OF TALK? The last time that kind of talk was permitted in government my family tree had an entire trunk pruned off. Don't act like any one group is sos special that they could never commit unspeakable atrocities. Ask former IDF soldiers how they feel about what they were ordered to do. Many of them vacation where I live. I talk to them, do you?
I don't know, zionist occupied media is an odd way to put it and I really don't appreciate any attempt at baiting the conversation toward hate. I know semantics are really all you have to work with when on the wrong side of good and evil, but it's obvious and annoying. Are you ok with unabashed Zionist billionaires attempting to control every part of the narrative that they can while supporting clear war crimes? You can't be for that, right? Literally spending billions in order to whitewash the perception of ethnic cleansing? Would you be ok if it were Muslim interests? Or Catholic? Or Hindu? Why? Or Why not?
To be honest, about the overlap between anti-zionism and antisemitism.... I don't think it's what you may expect. It seems as though a lot of western racists are actually pro-zionist. They don't plan on going to Israel. Look who Bibi and Trump break bread with, antisemitism does not seem to bother them very much. NICK FUENTES HAD DINNER AT THE WHITE HOUSE. This is not about the sanctity of religion, it is an imperial endeavor period. They meet with clear antisemites who support Israel, that's all they really care about. I doubt Bibi even cares about religion at all. Antizionism really ruffles their feathers though, not antisemitism. Why would that be? Now why would that possibly be? This might just be the greatest mystery of our time.
Name a few
Let's go one-for-one. Larry Ellison. Your turn. Just so I can know that I'm speaking with a thinking person.
I'd like to hear a few more
Nope. If I thought that you were actually curious, like you actually don't know and would like to learn, I would. If that is the case, tell me. But I do not get that feeling. Because you're proving to be one of those posters who adds nothing of substance and puts 100% of the impetus on your interlocutor, as though it were my job to educate you on something about which you could easily educate yourself. One singular Google search can give you your answer, but I guess blinders are nice if you don't wanna see what's to the left or right of you aren't they? You got a brain, use it if you want to learn. Don't use it if you want to pretend that your view is and has always been the only possible truth. But don't be surprised when most people call you out. It's your life. I've wasted enough time talking to people who discuss like 5th graders because they are aware of their lack of substance.
Look, if you like your viewpoint, say it clearly. That's all. It's the internet, say you're anything you want. But stop this word game shit like you're some super N'th level guy just loaded with the best and most relevant words and expressions with which to linguistically trap your opponent. Try honesty. Try clarity. It feels nice.
I did search it, and it led me to the antisemitic conspiracy theory
I think you've consumed neo-nazi propaganda disguised as anti-Israeli propaganda. Your one example, Larry Ellison, has no direct links to any media companies or government roles.
It's not my fault you open antisemitic propaganda pages. Do you give your bank info to random pop ups on porn sites too and then blame it on your computer? Weird how you keep using the word antisemitism when we are talking about Zionism. Why is that? Do you see how the conflation can happen? Most adults know how to use google, you can find tutorials but someone might need to show you how to use youtube first.
Are you just an open liar? The first page when you search his name is plastered with the term "Media Mogul".
https://fortune.com/2025/10/08/larry-ellison-technology-billionaire-media-mogul-family-david-ellison-artificial-intelligence-oracle-coding-cnn-tiktok-paramount-merger-deal/
This is why people don't talk to you. Stop with the games or leave me alone. You convince no-one. Actually, keep it up, people on the fence can see how dumb your position sounds.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3p9Y2Sayd3k
But yeah, not a guy who is connected in any way to a government or media organization. I'm done with you. I wish you could open your heart to the suffering of the world, but it's not my job to pry it open. It's not my heart to care about.
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cr4qwwk0g0yo
But go on, let's hear about how Fortune and the BBC are Neo Nazi propaganda outlets. You freak. Fuck you. Saying that I consumed neo nazi propaganda? If you knew me.... But of course you don't. Fortune magazine? The BBC? God I hope you're a bot because I do not want to have wasted the past hour talking to a wall. I don't want to believe that anyone could be so dense.
But if you don't want to do any genuine research, as I said, kindly walk away. Keep your horrible, awful vibes to yourself and jerk off over every meter of the Gaza strip which bears a new Israeli flag planted in a generational family home. Be shitty. Who cares about you. It's you who will need to live with this.
Quite the reaction to being challenged on your views.
Do you consider that there's any overlap between antizionism and antisemitism at all?
More of a reaction to being treated like a child, we are adults. We can talk like adults. I am not an idiot, if you lie clearly, it will be clear.
To your question, yes, I think that there is overlap. And that is the danger. I have seen more antisemitism in the mainstream in the last 3 years than in my entire life. My great-aunt burned our family documents in the 90s because she was still afraid that another holocaust could happen. I understand the sensitivity. But it can never be an excuse to do to others what was done to your people. Nobody can look at what is happening and use any other word. We are witnessing a holocaust carried out by the people from which I come. Weep, do not cheer. I think that we are on the same side. I mean, I'm sure that we have different views on the state of Israel and its actions spanning the past 80 years.
But I believe that this genocide, which we all see daily, which we cannot deny, which is ruining the emotional health of former IDF soldiers used as pawns for an imperial endeavor and destroying the lives of their cousins that they are forced to dehumanize and kill, (Again, I speak in-person with former and current IDF members, do you?) is pushing people who might not have had much of an opinion, maybe they laughed at old Jewish jokes, pushing them towards actual hate, because people like Bibi constantly conflate this genocide as a holy war for the Jewish people. When in reality it is an imperial massacre. He and others like him conflate this genocide with protecting the Jewish people. Which side are you on, antisemitism, or pro-genocide of Arabs? Asks Bibi.
Do
You
See
The
Problem
With
That
?
So how do we identify antisemitism within that antizionism?
I'm not a scholar on the subject, but I would say that antisemites are racist again Jews, in the same way that other racists are racist against Arabs or blacks. The exact same thing, ethnic hate. It's usually pretty easy to identify real hate. Especially if you have been following this conflict. Look into Smoltrich's eyes when he speaks if you need a reference for what hate or evil looks like. There are also plenty of antisemitic podcasters out there. The difference is noticeable.
Antizionists do not believe in the extermination of the indigenous ethnic groups who were inhabiting Palestine AT THE TIME THAT THE EUROPEANS ARRIVED, but do not hate Jews in general. Many of us are jews or come from Jewish backgrounds. An antisemite might hate that a Synagogue opens down the street, an antizionist wouldn't care, but would hate that a mosque was demolished with anti-tank mines for a tik tok video in Gaza. It's a pretty easy thing to notice.
I have living relatives older than Israel, Israel is not Judaism. We do not believe that the land being stolen should be stolen, we do not believe that the people being massacred, should be massacred. We can call it Zionism because that is the word that we have come to use, but it's good ol' fashioned colonialism with a pretty name, and we both know it. If it makes you feel nicer, let's call it settler-colonialism. No connection to religion at all.
Something like that, it's actually a very easy distinction to make. The only people that I see struggling with the distinction are Zionists.
There is always going to be racism. But my fellow human being, genocide is taking place with our money, we are doing this. We will have to die one day and answer for this, and you know as well as I on which side of the scale this will fall.
Did you hear about the ceasefire? Let's see what Israel does. Let's just see.
So we both know that this conflict didn't pop up after the 7th of October.
But before the 7th of October, was there a ceasefire present? If so, what happened to it?
I am not a scholar on the subject, but if you would be so kind as to educate me on the topics wherein my knowledge is lacking I would appreciate that.
Before the 7th of October there was a ceasefire between Israel and Hamas.
Hamas broke the ceasefire with the 7th of October massacres.
Well I mean I know that.
Tell me about the Nakba? the first one.
Yes, Israel started as a colonist power, and the Palestinian people didn't yet have a national identity.
I hate this, though, since you can just keep going on and on about who started what and who owns what considering the history of the region. I love this music video since it really shows just how extensive this history is.
Yeah I know, and it almost seems hypocritical since we all basically come form colonial powers. but we used to to horrible shit all the time. We know better, we can be better. And to do it in the name of religion truly disgusts me. Like it or not, the tides are turning.
the only way for peace though is meeting both ways.
i think a good start is Hamas and the Bibi government being dissolved. Good luck with that though
Yeah I'm with ya there, that's the first step I'd like to see. The right wing in power now scares the bejesus out of me and has the possibility foment generations of hate.
He would lose if there were elections.