this post was submitted on 22 Sep 2025
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Alright, then show me the proof. Quote the line where you, or anyone, demonstrated that money is an essential element for something to be created. Just one example where a sufficently motivated person or group in a moneyless society couldn't create something without money.
Because it’s not a phone, and it’s not a canal. So what exactly have I missed where money itself is the magic ingredient? How many dollar bills does it take to make a meal? Not to pay someone for it. Literally, how many do you have to chew and swallow to survive?
edit: oh, and to anwswer your edit that I missed,
Not quite "no result". But money is the only part of the current process to create a phone that can be removed and still have the same phone. Given the same manufacturing process, the same components, and the same labor, with an entierly different incentive system, you would get the same phone.
Does that mean we would have built the same device? Obviously not, the incentive system had an impact, for better or worse, on the decisions made to make the phone the way it is. But if we went post scarcity tomorrow, and money was abolished, would we sudddnly be unable to make the same phone?
You willfully missed the memo, but this was /thread.
You keep moving the goalposts. First you say your points stand unless we disprove them (as if that’s the way it works). Now we have to prove this new statement you -and no one else - have said, that money is the only way something gets created.
Really, just stop struggling. You made the point that capital can be removed with no effect, and that’s just plain bullshit. The rest is you dancing around trying to shift the goalposts.
Oh Jiminy Christmas, you really are dense.
I literally acknowledged in my first comment that payment in the form of capital is a perfectly fine incentive under the current system. So no, those quotes don’t “refute my point.” And nowhere in that thread did anyone refute my actual point.
So my point, that capital isn’t essential to creation, still stands. You even admitted as much to other commenters when you said:
So yes, exactly. Thank you for proving my argument for me.
And yes, if you wanted to refute me, you’d have to prove money is the only way something gets created. Otherwise, it’s not essential. Basic logic.
Did you have to refute it? Nope, I sure as hell didn't say you did. You could’ve let it stand, ignored it, or even agreed. Instead, you went with:
Followed by:
So which is it? Did you actually refute me, or are you just bluffing because you’ve got nothing?
And nice try with the strawman, but I never said capital can be “removed with no effect.” I said it can be removed while still being possible to get the same outcome. We would obviously have to change how we managed the distribution of goods, and decide if there even was an incentive to continue creating the specific "thing". (And if I can't correct your misusage of "irony", you sure as hell don't get to tell me what I meant. None of this "rules for thee, not for me" BS you're trying to pull.)
I have even repeatedly clarified as much when you asked if it could be removed with "no result":
At this point, it’s clear, you’re not debating, you’re just nursing a chip on your shoulder and lashing out at anyone who questions your golden cow.
Have a good one. (<-That was ironic)