this post was submitted on 17 Sep 2025
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MeanwhileOnGrad
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Conservative estimates state that Stalin was directly responsible for twenty million deaths.
There is no charm offensive that will "slowly change what comes to mind" when thinking of Joseph Stalin.
Well I'm no historian. I didn't have that number. My point is that I don't think about Stalin that much, and, without grounding, posting about how minimalist Stalin was sounds like a decently effective way to change how I view him.
It sounds like you've got a much more detailed understanding of Stalin than I do.
Anyone my age range or older would have no excuse for not knowing what kind of monster Stalin was. Anyone who has spoken to survivors who escaped his regime would never have the fucking audacity.
By comparison, Pol Pot was responsible for the killing fields in Cambodia. His murder spree is just a rounding error in Stalin's body of work.
it's very much a us-centrism position that most people from the US, meaning tankies, see Stalin. They don't care for the Holodomor, most have never heard of it.
What about liberal estimates?
Triple that.
Isn’t that like ten holocausts?
and how many of those were invading nazis?
Stop trying to put lipstick on a pig.
"Don't believe the victims!"
Isn't the part of a winning charm offensive.
Any quibbling you attempt in an effort to massage the numbers just dies, when you consider that the numbers you want to fiddle with are in the fucking millions.
My point is if they have to pad the stat with millions of dead nazis, what else are they willing to lie about?
https://cla.umn.edu/chgs/holocaust-genocide-education/resource-guides/holodomor
This definitely happened and killed millions.
If they are in that number, then the about 1 million dead nazi soldiers are about 10% of "padding". If you reduce one million from "about 20 million", you still have about 20 million. If there's padding, it disappears within the rounding error.
So, was your argument that "I assume they were padding the stats without actually checking if they did, therefore they have lied, therefore they have lied on other things as well"?
About 1 to 2 million. 1.1 million soldiers dead on Nazi Germany's eastern front, plus some 1 million "MIA + POW", of which some amount might be dead as well?
Why was this important for you to know?
What were did you get that 1 million number lmao
From not all wounded dying.
Asked them all personally? 🤣
So the death count on the eastern front is usually 4-5 million. Least according to the cursory glance on wikipedia before i put this comment up. Where are you getting your number
That's not to speak of all the german settlers that were looking to take advantage of the extended "lebensraum"
A different page on Wikipedia.
But yes, checking a couple more pages there, I do get the same 4 million as a number.
That would be already 20 % of the 20 million. Assumed they are count in that number. But still, 90% are something else. (Also, I've always heard about 60 million as number of Stalin's victims. It feels weird that someone would inflate numbers and get to 20 million when 60 million is often quoted).
No, by the time I was born, they were all dead. That's what dying causes.
This of course brings us back to my original point "if they have to pad the stat with millions of dead nazis, what else are they willing to lie about?"
Also here is a good article debunking these "black book of communism" statistics https://discomfiting.medium.com/debunking-communism-killed-more-people-than-naziism-7a9880696f67
more involved https://jacobin.com/2025/01/black-book-communism-courtois-history
also just for the lols https://www.theartnewspaper.com/2025/12/17/canada-monument-victims-communism-no-names-nazi-controversy
Aha.
It's not nice when Lemmygraders taint decent instances. Mrhmph.
nice comeback
I have heard them before. I was completely able to hear them (or more/precisely: read them.)
I have learned how useful it is to spend time arguing against those arguments. There are arguments against yours and they will get simply ignored.
And obviously, now you say you identify as a tankie. If you identify as a supporter of a country using military force against its own civilians, you support things I see as evil. That does not motivate me to give you the privilege of arguing.
In any case, I wish you a peaceful yule time!