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An Anti Hero is basically a good guy who is kinda bad, or does good things for bad reasons. Deadpool's a classic example of an Anti Hero

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[–] eightpix@lemmy.world 2 points 14 hours ago* (last edited 14 hours ago) (1 children)

Anti-hero: the protagonist whose methods, while effective, are not openly supported or celebrated because they fly in the face of "norms."

While I agree with your analysis on Holden. Reluctant hero, to be sure. He sure did screw over Earth and Mars on a fairly regular basis to make his points stick. He disobeyed orders and protected a Belter ship, which got him bounced from the Navy. He declined promotion so he could keep shagging the pilot of the Cant. He went alone on sending out the message that got them caught by the Donny... and that was all before shooting down a medical relief vessel, shearing off the drive section of a UNN vessel, targetlocking every ship in the Ganymede AO as he escorted the Weeping Somnambulist away. In-universe, Holden will do just about anything to advance his own ends. He's a privateer, his motives and methods transcend in-universe moralities, which we can only see because we know all the pieces. It's not 'til the Behemoth that he gains the patina of "saviour" — in contact with the dead, chosen by the protomolecule for direct communication, and having escaped death enough times to engender trust.

For most of the others — Amos (that guy --> just walk away), Naomi (clubbing Cyn ‐‐> waking the Presence), and Alex (we don't talk about Alex) for running with Holden; Fred (stealing missiles, selling Inaros out to the Inners --> "in my quarters, stop them"), Drummer (executioner --> "speak plainly"), and Bobbie (warrior, defector, ronin, mercenary --> fucking Valkyrie) for materially supporting Holden; in-universe, they would also be regarded as Anti-Heroes until they're not because of their arcs. Don't hate the playa. Hate the game.

Maybe "hero of the belt" = anti-hero precisely because it undercuts the frame of a "classic" hero. Much to be learned, then. Maybe I just want them to be anti-heroes because I have so much respect for these characters, their subversion of "norms" and willingness to address a greater good.

Nice touch with the comparison between Amos and Shinji Ikari. If this had been 2 years ago, I wouldn't have known. I see it now.

Also, Clarissa Mao?

[–] Semjaza@lemmynsfw.com 1 points 13 hours ago

I agree with your view for how they're seen in universe, but "anti-hero" is a Doylian status rather than Watsonian.

Holden follows heroic, regarded as heroic by our 21st century Anglo-European society morality. Alex, while the heart of the gang is more of an anti-hero due to his commitment phobia and run of failed relationships.

They're all (except Amos (except he kinda is in his own way)) admirable characters, and worthy of emulation.

Clarissa, like Fred Johnson, and to a lesser extent Avasarala (although more so in the books) started off in antagonist roles, and thus tend to be more anti-hero /accepting of less moral choices because of that. Good arcs and development with all of them. But Johnson is more supporting cast, so doesn't quite get to anti-hero for me on that count, but made difficult choices to make up for past crimes.